hi,
dear gents i am a member of the list for some while i have been
following you but i have been hesitant to post anything on these
subjects i am interested in but really a lot ignorant, untill i
recently read some pieces of articles about the neolithic demic
diffusion may be considered to be nostratic demic diffusion. here are
the articles.
Here are some excerpts from some assays I have recently read.
Threelarge- scale phenomena have been inferred from the European
archeological record( Fig. 1). In the Upper Paleolithic, around
40,000 years ago, Neandertal people were replaced by anatomically
modern humans( 9), who moved in from the Levant, and settled in many
areas of the continent( 13). At the latest glacial maximum, some
18,000 years ago, Northern and Central Europe were largely covered
with glaciers. Human presence then seems restricted to the warmest
regions, or glacial refugia( 14), and only later reappears more to
the North, accompanying the retreat of the ice sheet; we shall refer
to that postglacial phase as the Mesolithic period. The first
evidence of food production( farming and animalbreeding—i. e., theso-
called Neolithic revolution) dates at around 10,000 years B.P. in the
Levant( 15, 16). Gradually, Neolithic artifacts spread westwards and
northwards, along much the same routes followed by the first
Paleolithic colonization. Later demographic shifts affecting Europe
as a whole are not documented. Thus, the overall pattern of European
genetic diversity probably reflects the effects of the first
Paleolithic colonization, or of Mesolithic reexpansions, or of the
Neolithic demic diffusion, although the history of each local
population must have been much more complicated than that.
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/1/22/F1
as it seems from the map the iberic people are associated with
mesolithic reexpansions. i wonder if these people are basques or
infact taurids.


To the best of our knowledge, a global age of the European
mitochondrial genealogy has never been published, and it would be
very old anyway, certainly older than the arrival of Homo sapiens
sapiens in Europe. However, groups of evolutionarily related alleles
have been defined within the genealogy, and their age has been
variously estimated between 52,500( haplogroup U5) and 6,500 years(
haplogroup J1a)( 23). The fact that the origin of most such
haplogroups predates the origin of farming has been taken as evidence
that the European mitochondrial pool comes essentially from
populations that were already settled in Europe before the Neolithic
period( ref. 24, and references therein). The fact that the age of
some haplogroups, and hence of the entire genealogy, predates the
arrival of Homo sapiens sapiens in Europe has not received much
attention.
Genetics and the population history of Europe Guido Barbujani* and
Giorgio Bertorelle
22– 25 u PNAS u January 2, 2001 u vol. 98 u no.1




farming and anima l domestication are recent phenomena occuring from
1000 years before present and onward. farming arose independently on
several parts of the world including in a region in the middle east
known as fertile crescent which extends from israel through northern
syria to western iran. from this region agriculture expanded in both
western and eastern directions. the spread of farming economy towards
east into the area from iran to india started a little later between
the sixth and fifth millenia B.c. the neolithic revolution in the
iranian region and the indus valley reached its zenith by 6000 yeas
before present. and involved strong urban civilizations such as the
sumerian the elamite and harappan. another major innovation probably
later than agriculture was the domestication of animals which is
thought to ed to dramamatic population extensions in eurosia.
pastoral nomadism developed in the grasslands of central asia east of
the volga don region as well is in southeastern europe opening up the
possibility of rapid movements of large population groups. the spread
of these new technologies have been associated with the dispersal of
dravidian and indoiranian languages in southern asia(renfrew 1987;
cavalli sforza 1988) spesifically elamodravidinian languages(ruhlen
1991) which may have originated in the elam province(zagros mountains
southwestern iran)are now confined to southeastern india and to some
isolated groups in pakistan and northern india. it is hypothesized
that the protoelamodravidinain language spoken by the elamites in
southwestern iran spread eastward with the movement of farmers from
this region.(cavalli-sforza et al 1994); renfrew 1996). A later
episode the arrival of pastoral nomads from central asian steppes to
the iranian plateau,~4000 years bpd(before presnt day) brought with
it the indoiranian branch of ÝE language family, which eventually
replaced dravidian languages in iran and most of pakistan and
northern india perhaps by an elite dominance process. the incursion
of these arian peoples coincided with the decadence of important
neolithic cultures such as the harappan civilization by ~~3000,4000
years bpd.
two chrosomal linages are described hg9 hg3 depending on the analysis
of 11 biallelic markers( sry-1532,2627,8299, yap, sY81,12f2, M9,
92R7,LLY22g, Tat and RPS4y) but the frequency for each of the
haplotypes for two clines are not given in details but as two major
clines. Hg9 defined by the 12f2 deletion is largely proposed to
caucasoid populations with its largest frequencies being found in
middle eastern populations.
hg3 is defined by a back mutaiton atsry1532 is virtually absent from
african eastern asian and native american populations and found in
highest frequencies in central asia. russia %50, altai %52. with a
decreasing frequency cline westward into europe. this data suggests
that central asia is the origin of this marker.
the distribution of hg3 in iran shows marked difference between
western and eastern provinces southwestern caspian %3, eastern
provinces %31 with a decreasing frequency cline towards india,
pakistan %32, northern india %26.
this supports the idea that ÝE speakers spread from central asia via
eastern caspian route as weel as india.hg9 is dated 14800 and hg3 is
dated 7500 yeras from present.
y chrosome lineage trace diffusion of people and language in
southwestern asia
am journal hum genet 537 542.




affinities among the vocabularie and morphologies of many euroasian
languages have led to the hypothesis that they drive from a common
ancestor.renfrew proposed that nostratic was spoken by populations of
near east more than 10000 years ago. the ability to produce
foodincreased the population densities.population then expanded
outward in four major wawes with each wawe propagating farming along
with a protolanguage from which ÝE, elamodravidian, afroasiatic and
altaic later developed. if the nostratic dd model is correct two
bilological consequences are to be expexted. i. genetic vraince among
should be larger in the NDD than in other linguistic languages.
indeed other evolutionary pressures being equal the former received
from immigrant farmers different proportions of novel alleles
depending on their location along the routes of dispersal. in thr NDD
families one should observe clines radiating away from the near eeast
analogus to those that allowed identification of demic diffusion in
europe.
at the glyoxalase locus approximately longitudianl clines are evident
for populations speaking indoeuropean, alamodravidinian and altaic
languages but not for afroasiatic speakers. there is significant
overall departurew from chance expectations for austric but not for
uralic, caucasian and sinotibetean.

the longitudinal gradients observed observed for austric cannot be
due to demic diffusion from the near east because of two or three
cases they do not emcompass iran and indian subcontinent. there may
be some gradients in the NDD groups may also reflect processes other
than neolithic demic diffusion of N. for afroasiatic the answer is
not obvious. there five gradients are consistent with NDD. but
overall significance is not higher than among austric speakers.
contrary to what is stated by NDD model some linguists claim that
afroasiatic spread from africa to asia.other processes partly
overlapping with it may have played a grater role. as a whole demic
diffusion occur within nostratic family farming and atleast three
language familes must have spread together. one could envisage the
possiblity that the gradients result from founder effects occuring
earlier during the initial colonization of euroasia by homo sapiens
sapiensalso starting from near east. howerver the correspondence
between nostratic language family and regions of clinal variation
would also imply these familes originated in the early paleolithic.
few linguists would be ready to root current linguistic differences
in so distant times.best estimates of origin are catal huyuk(turkey)
for ÝE, jericho for afroasiatic, ali kosh (iraq) for indoeuropean and
elamodravidian,caucasian, sinotibetean and austric and jetuin
(turkmeania) for altaic and uralic.

there is a map aa for north africa, Ýe on the continetal europe, ur
for the northest scandinavia and northwest asia, altaic from
turkmenia to most of the asia until the almost chinese wall, indian
and elamodravidian for iran and india.

procl natl acad scie usa 90 4670-3 1993 may
thank you for i learn alot.
best regards