Thanks Alexander for the detail on the microlithic cultures of the
Ukraine and Crimea. This has been a bit of a lacuna in my
explanation as I have few references to the Mesolithic cultures
here, except one monograph which shows close connections between
the Danubian microliths and the steppe cultures and suggests that
people moved north and east out of the Danube Gorge cultures with the
warming of climates after the Upper Dryas.

To my post

> >From this we can assume that the bow and arrow which had been in
> > Africa 30,000 BCE, crossed into Eurasia from two routes
> >
> > 1. A western route - via Spain and Portugal
> > 2. An Eastern route via the Sinai and Palestine.
>
> No questions about the 1st variant.
> But 2nd. Is it proved that the bow and arrow came to Palestine,
> Mesopotamia and Asia Minor from Egypt, but not from Europe? I read
> that a part of Swiderian people moved from Poland to SouthEast (6
> sites with Swiderian-type inventory in Crimea).

Do they give dates for this movement? It would be important to know
this as it would give us a chance to see trends

Swiderian ===> Takhunian

OR

Takhunian ===> Crimea

> Some authors (N.Nikolaeva and V.Safronov) even insist that Swiderian
> arrowheads types are actually identicall with the Takhunian ones
> (Beida, Jericho B). If they are right bow and arrow could come to
> Palestine from Central Europe through Asia Minor.
> Your opinion?

It would be difficult as there appears to have been no intermediary
cultures which were moving southwards. Rather they all appear to be
moving northwards with the warming of the climates, increasing aridity
in the Middle East, and the movement of herds. This is certainly the
case in the Beldibi and Belbasi Cultures of Anatolia, which show clear
derivation from Kebaran and Natufian respectively (albeit a little
later). Both seem to have influenced the development of Franchthi
cave (in the Argolid) which appears midway between Anatolian and
Danubian (in date as well as cultural assemblage).

> Murzak-Koba represents Crimean Mesolithic but is not the oldest
> microlithic culture to North of the Black sea. It has been
> demonstrated that Shan-Koba type layers are older than Murzak-Koba
> ones. Kukrek culture layers also stratigraphically lower then layers
> of Murzak-Koba.

Ah! I wonder whether these are the Swidderian derived cultures. Do
you have dates for them. I have a 9,100-8,000 BCE date for calibrated
Murzak Koba.

> Anyway there were several waves of microlithic cultures to the
> Ukrainian steppes. These processes need further investigations and
> systematisation. However something is clear enough. The Eneolithic
> Sredny Stog culture is a descendant of the Neolithic Sura
> culture which seems to be genetically tightly related with the
> Crimean Mountain Neolithic and the West Caucasian Neolithic. All of
> them represent the last microlithic wave of 7th-6th mill.BC (leading
> from Asia Minor to Lower Dnieper). It is interesting that all of
> them were not acquainted on the earliest stages with sheep and goats
> but demonstrated evidences of cattle and pigs (+ horse only in the
> Sura culture).

Fascinating. Following on what you seem to be suggesting is that
domestication in these cases came via the Caucasas and not via the
Balkans. Is this what the evidence is suggesting. Given the absence
of ovicaprids, it makes me wonder about cognates for cattle and
pigs, versus sheep and goats between PIE and Kartvellian. Of course
this is all post 8,500 BCE surely.

> On the other hand, all the mentioned cultures distinguish from other
> cultures of Ukrainian Neolithic (also having microliths):
> Bug-Dnestr, Dnieper-Donets, Rakushechny Yar, Middle Don,
> Seroglazovskaya and some other cultures. (BTW, they also knew first
> domesticated cattle and pigs and only later imported sheep and
> goats). I don't know whether they represent a development of older
> local Mesolithic cultures or they came later as a new wave.

I have seen it suggested that they are a product of "neolithicisation"
along a demic frontier of agriculture spreading up from the Balkans,
as I understand a number of these show links with the earlier Grebenki
culture. Is this still the understanding, or has later evidence
changed the picture?

> I guess that the first group of cultures (Sura and Co) represent the
> Indo-European way, because they demonstrate in the succession Sura
> c. - Sredny Stog c. - Pit Grave (= Yamnaya) c. etc. the progressive
> adaptation to the life in steppes: pastoral orientation with
> transition to semi-nomadism (and ultimately to nomadism),
> domesticated horse, some cultural objects associated with nomads.
> The second group of cultures also lived in steppes but did not
> adopted to this zone successfully. That's why they disappeared soon.
> Their ethnic attribution is not clear. They had microliths,
> therefore I expect them to be a Nostratic group - either 7th "dead
> end" branch or perhaps a Western subbranch of Uralic family? Now we
> can only guess.

In fact I would suspect that there are many more sub-groups of
Nostratic than those which we have recorded. Accident of history, and
a later spread through agriculture seems to have been the cause of the
spread of those we have, although I feel that with the Yukaghir,
Chukchi and Inuit groups it was due to the superiority of their arctic
hunter-gatherer ways that let them survive and thrive.

> There weve several trips in direction NW Africa/Spain - Atlantic
> Europe -. North Europe:
> - Ibero-Maurusians (Mesolithic)
> - Cardial pottery c. / Megalithic cultures (Neolithic)
> - Beakers (the Copper Age)
> Who left those traces?

The first Western Cardial culture I believe used an incised ware using
the Cardium Shell, and spread originally from Albania into Southern
Italy and Sicily, I believe. The connection between NW Africa and
Spain in this case is more apparent than real, as they both seem to
have come from a common source to the east. In any case, it is now
believed that Cardial cultures had little effect upon the later
Neolithic cultures of Western Europe. The First Western neolithic
culture seems to have developed from a process of Neolithicisation of
the earlier mesolithic produced by contacts between Coastal
settlements of Cardial fisher-folk (who also were farmers and
herders), and the mesolithic cultures of the interior. This would
seem to explain some of the cultural diversities that exist between
the Palmella culture (Portugal), the Pyrenean, and the other groups
that emerged along the Gulf of Lyons and the Iberian coast.

Regarding Beakers, the latest explanation of the spread of Beakers is
that they were not due to the spread of any group at all, but were
associated with the spread of the fashion for alcoholic drinks, and
with the growth of social stratification with clint-patronage chiefs
monopolising access to alcohol. In all areas where there is an
appearance of beakers pollen analysis suggests an increase of hops and
barley growing.

There is some discussion as to the direction of the movment of
Beakers, as there seems to have been two centres for dispersion - one
in the area north of the Alps and along the Weser, the second from
Iberia. Some have suggested the Iberian Beakers came first to meet
with Battle Axe cultures coming westward through the forest zone, with
a subsequent reflux. In any case the African Beakers seem derivative
of the European ones I understand.

I am very interested in what you have been saying about Ukraine and
East European mesolithic. Any answers you can give would be
gratefully recieved.

Warm regards

John