> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen@...
> To: nostratic@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 3:17 PM
> Subject: [nostratic] Re: Afro-Austronesian numerals ?
>
>
>
> I think I finally agree with you. A pity indeed.
> But are you really serious that eg. *r (> *d) > *t is impossible?
>
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
--- In nostratic@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> Not _absolutely_ impossible, just many times less probable than
change in the reverse direction (intervocalic lenition of consonants
is a highly natural process). Do you know of any well-documented
examples of -r- > -t-? Intervocalic voicing of *-t- (with -d- as well
as -r- or -l- as the end product) is demonstrable for many African
languages.
>
> I don't question the possibility of AN migration(s) towards Africa.
We have Malagasy in Madagascar, of course, but that was a pretty
recent event (the position of Malagasy in the Malayo-Polynesian branch
is securely established and so is the approximate date of its
separation from its closest relatives).
>
> Piotr
>
True. But so is the Bantu expansion.
As I see it there are two possible cases.

1. Bantu is Niger-Congo
2. Bantu is not Niger-Congo

In either case, I can point to many *t-r- "3"'s in Niger-Congo
languages. It then doesn't become extremely important whether Bantu
"3" can be related to *t-r-.

In any case there is *t-r/l- in Austronesia, West Africa and IE (> AA
*T-l-T-). Now I would find that not very probable a priori, but in the
end it is of course also a matter of what other things you find
probable (eg. modes of transport).

Torsten