--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "WMajor" <wm@...> wrote:

>
> Hello to all -- I'm new to the group here.

Hi Wade, and welcome to Norse Course!

> I'm trying to get an accurate translation on a
> poem from one of the Bergen runes.
>
> The complete phrase, as translated into Old Norse, is this:

Well, it is in Old Norse to start with, so what follows is rather a
transliteration from the runic spelling into normalised Old Norse, as
written in our Latin alphabet. Also the root vowel in the verb 'reyna'
has been modified to conform to an Icelandic form of Old Norse,
whereas the vowel in the original runic inscription reflects the
Norwegian dialect of Old Norse.

> "kann ek segja thér, sem thú mant reyna af mér, at ek skal unna thér

engu verr enn mér."

>
> The alleged English translation is this:
>
> "I can say to you, as you will experience with me, that I will love

you no less than myself."

>
> This seems to me to simply be a word-for-word translation, rather

than one that

> translates the meaning of the poem. Can anyone here give me a more

accurate translation

> in modern English that preserves the essence of what the poet is

really saying? I can't

> imagine the poem is saying, "I love myself so much, hang out with me

long enough and I'll

> end up loving you the same."

Weirdly, I didn't get this impression from the English translation
above. As far as I can see, it's just a matter of emphasis. Obviously
it's not likely that the words were composed with the intention of
emphasising how much "I love myself", so it follows that in the
context it was written in, it would be taken as a given that, as a
general rule, "I love myself more than I love other people". That
natural liking for oneself is then used as a standard by which to
measure "my love for thee".

But if that assumption (that generally "I love myself more than I love
other people") doesn't work any more, then I suppose it would seem
unnatural, meaningless or even insulting to say "I love you as much as
I love myself". Maybe that's the problem you're having? In our modern
world, we're too familiar with the idea that people might not love
themselves, or might love others more, or at least boast of loving
others more in songs...

Or does the problem lie in 'engu verr en mér'? A lot of Old Norse
expressions rely on understatement, so "no less than myself" needn't
imply a grudging offer of love!

Or is it the time scale that seems odd to you? You paraphrase it as
"...hang out with me long enough and I'll end up loving you the same".
But it's not saying "I'll end up loving you..." so much as "you'll
find out that I love you no less than I love myself", "you'll learn by
experience that I love you", "I'll prove to you that I love you",
"you'll discover/encounter/meet with this quality in me, that I love
you", "you'll see for yourself that it's so".

> And if the phrase were simply shortened to:
>
> "ek skal unna thér engu verr enn mér"
>
> would this have a different meaning on its own, without the intro?

Or would it literally be:

>
> "I will love you no less than myself."

I would say yes, it's pretty much the same. All the preamble adds is:
"I can tell you this" and "you will find this to be the case".