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Thanks LN for your trust - Patricia's thought should have read though ....etc
I have been looking at Grace's translation and observing the comparisons between Graces work and mine - from this I can see where I could have phrased it better, and because of the way you have set this out for us - this assessment - is valuable to me - I am about to copy it up.
Yes I see that - Grace was right on - there - it was one I stumbled over <<Patricia: "the death of Þorð". More specifically, "the killing of Þórð".>>
Yes LN point taken - not so much the death - but the way it was done - unfairly and with treachery yes -
vænt = likely
örvænt - unlikely
eigi örvænt - not unlikely illustrating the Norse Art of understatement (knowing Bergþora)
I often wondered where we got it from - called the English art of understatement -brilliant
Thanks again for this - LN it is valuable
Kveðja
Patricia
-------Original Message-------
> En er sendimaður kom til þings að segja Gunnari vígið þá mælti Gunnar:"Þetta er illa orðið og eigi kæmu þau tíðindi til eyrna mér að mér þættu verri. 'kæmu' is the modern spelling for ON 'koemi', past subjunctive plural 3rd person of 'koma'. Similarly 'þættu' = ON 'þoetti' (inf. ''). I think the subjunctive is used here to give it a hypothetical sense, the past to indicate unreality: "This has happened badly (this is a bad thing to happen), and there would not come to my ears [any] tidings which would seem worse to me." 'orðið' = 'orðit', past participle, neuter, of 'verða'. 'vænti mig' "I hope" or "I expect" (infinitive 'vænta') with accusative subject. > að honum fari enn vel þó að hann sé mjög að þreyttur.I think Grace has the right idea here: "he will continue to do well [by us], to behave decently, even though he be sorely tried" -- see Zoega 'fara' (10) and 'þreyttr' adj., where this example is quoted. > fyrstYes, "at first", the strong neuter nom/acc form of the adjective used adverbially here. > víg ÞórðarPatricia: "the death of Þorð". More specifically, "the killing of Þórð". > En þó er eigi örvænt að eg hafi ámæli af konu minniGrace: "unusual? (or unlikely?)" 'örvænt' "unlikely, not to be expected", so 'eigi örvænt' "likely, to be expected". The prefix ör- is in origin the same as the preposition 'ór', 'úr' (sometimes even 'ýr') "from, out of" -- the different forms are due to the effect of different degrees of stress in the period before writing in books began. The negative use presumably comes from the metaphor of something being "out of" or "away from" what might be expected or hoped for. Patricia: "But even though I am certain to have words from my wife". Yes, "Nevertheless it is not unlikely / it will come as no surprise if I have reproach from my wife" > En þó mun eg á það hætta því að eg veit að eg á við dreng um.I'm sure Patricia's "thought" is just a typo. "And yet I'm going to take that chance (risk that), because I know that I'm dealing with a man of honour" (i.e. Gunnar). > "Vilt þú nokkuð sonu þína við láta vera?"Patricia: "Will you want any one of your sons to be present?" I think 'nokkuð' here is being used adverbially to add a feeling of tentativeness to the question: "Do you perhaps want to have your sons present?" MM & HP translate 'nokkuð' "...at all?" Notice that it's neuter, rather than masculine to agree with 'sonu'. > En ef þeir eru við staddir þá munu þeir ekki saman draga.Patricia: "but if they were here present they would not take part" Literally "if they are present", with future meaning "if they are present [when we conclude this deal], then they won't be party to it." Does Zoega have this idiom? I could only find mention of an impersonal 'dregr saman (með þeim)' with the same meaning of concluding a deal. > Sjá þú einn fyrir.Grace: "You see one before???" Imperative: "(you) see to it alone", "you alone see to it". 'sjá fyrir e-u' "to take care of something". I wonder if there's a play on words here with 'sjá e-t fyrir' "to foresee"? But presumably "see to, take care of" is the main meaning; this seems to have been how MM & HP took it. > og höfum við Gunnar nú sæst á máliðPatricia: and with Gunnar we (?) have made a settlement 'við' = ON 'vit' "we two", "Gunnar and I have come-to-a-settlemen t (sæzt) regarding this case". > Mikils þótti þeim við þurfa"they thought they needed much (i.e. a lot of men to kill just one man). 'þurfa' "to need" takes genitive for the thing that's needed. > hvar skal þá komið"where must it have got to then" (with 'vera' understood), i.e. "how far must things go". > og munt þú þá eigi þess lattur"and you will not be dissuaded (held back) from that", again with 'vera' "be" understood. Genitive of 'þat' for the thing someone is held back from. 'lattur' = ON 'lattr', past part. masc. nom. of 'letja'. > Engis mun eg þá um beiða,'beiða' "to ask" takes genitive for the thing which is requested (and either accusative or dative for the person to whom the request is directed), thus: "I will ask for nothing then (in that eventuality) ." I think 'um' here = "about, in respect of" with "this matter" implied, unless it's just being used as often in poetry with no specific meaning. LN | |||
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