Thanks a bundle Peter, that is very satisfactory,
my translation was not so very bad after all
I have C&V on order and should shortly
have it in my possession
The Person who originated the discussion could have
mis-copied, but the O/N and James Chisholm
was alleged to have provided the translation I have
gone back to and marked with red stars, and the O/N text = I agreed with him
most all of the passage quoted .
I came to this group for validation of my
translation and I find it here, so someone on the Forum who
considered my translation funny, probably does not
know a blue-bell from a bulls lip
Very many thanks - better now
Patricia
From: llama_nom
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 9:25 PMSubject: [norse_course] Re: Copied from a Nessage Forum (Lokasenna 19), fjarg
According to Cleasby & Vigfússon "Ls. 19 is corrupt, so that there
is no evidence for the word fjörg -- gods." I don't know what the
actual manuscript says, or how closely it matches this version.
Lokasenna 19.
Gefjun kvað
Hví it æsir tveir
skuluð inni hér
sáryrðum sakask?
Loptki þat veit,
at hann leikinn er
ok hann fjörg öll fía.
My attempt, based on the lines as they appear here: "Why must you
two gods (Bragi and Loki) bandy hurtful words with each other in
here? Loki doesn't know that he's fooled and all ????? hate him."
Loptr = Loki. -ki is the negative suffix.
leikinn "fooled, tricked" (Zoega leika 6).
fjarg "a heathen god" acc. Zoega; a guess based on this one
occurance? If so, "living things" might be at least as good a
guess. See below.
'hann' has the same form in the nominative as the accusative, but
the verb 'fía' "hate" (=fjá) is plural, so 'fjörg' would be the
subject (assuming it to be neuter plural of a word 'fjarg') and the
object 'hann' "him" = Loki.
Thorpe:
"Why will ye,
Æsir twain,
here within,
strive with reproachful words?
Lopt perceives not that he is deluded,
and is urged on by fate."
Hollander comments "the rendering of these lines (the last two?) is
uncertain." He translates the first part similarly to Thorpe, but
the end: "for Loki knoweth what nag he bears? he loaths all living
things." I don't know what the idiom "what nag he bears" means.
From CV:
fjarg-hús, n. pl. [farg, fergir, fjörgyn], huge, big houses
fjarg-vefjask, to groan and lament
fjarg-viðrask, að, dep. to groan as under a weight; f. dýrin sein og
þung, Bb. 3. 35: the phrase, f. um e-t, to groan, make a fuss about
nothing.
fergin, n. veronica (the herb)
fergir, m. an oppressor, enemy
In the interpretation "living things", presumably the word is seen
as related to 'fjör' life and 'firar' "men"
(Gothic 'fairhvus' "world"), according to Verner's Law whereby /g/
alternates with /h/ depending on where the word was stressed before
Germanic had a fixed word-stress; the /h/ was later lost in Old
Norse. Fjörgyn is the goddess of the earth
(Go. 'faurguni' "mountain"). Cf. also Go. 'wai-fairhvjan' "to
lament".
I'm sure more knowledgable people than me must have investigated
this...
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
<originalpatricia@...> wrote:
>
> Gefjon kvað:
>
> “Hvà it æsir tvier skuluð inni hér
> sáryrðum sakask?
> Loftki þat veit, at hann leikinn er
> ok hann fjörg öll fÃá.â€
> can anyone help me here
> there are differing translations given, I contributed but at first
sight
> I seem to be considered wrong here
>
>
> Caroline Larrington Translation - alleged to be
> Gefion said:
> ‘Why should you two Ǽsir in here
> fight with wounding words?
> Loki knows that he is joking
> and all living things love him.’
>
>
>
> Gefjun spake:
>
> “Why, ye gods twain, with bitter tongues
> Raise hate among us here?
> Loki is famed for his mockery foul, Janes chisholm *******
> And the dwellers in Heaven he hates.â€
> From James a Chisholm
>
> I would have it as
> Why are you two Gods..... here in the Hall (inni -Indoors)
> Bitter words trading
>
> Loki knows of this.......... for that he plays tricks
> and he all life dislikes
>
> this was considered amusing - what do you guys think
> Patricia
> my translation tho considered odd I do not believe was THAT bad
>