Hi Xigung

 

Thanks for explanation and examples. It certainly would seem to depend on whether it is used as an adverb of motion or of place. I´m not sure that Zoega makes that at all clear, but my modern Icelandic dictionary is a bit more forthcoming, citing for uses as adverb of place, 'ofan á e-u', on top of something and 'ofan til', near the top.

 

Kveðja

Alan

 

-----Original Message-----
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of xigung
Sent: Wednesday, 29 March 2006 1:00 AM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Hrafnkell 655-669 / Alan´s Translation

 

Hi Alan,

 

The sentence was (I believe):

 " Þar ofan frá standa goðahús þau, er Hrafnkell hafði átt.

   Þorkell vildi koma þar. "

 

It describes a relative position.

I think you have to distinguish between position and motion.

"ofan" should definitely mean the higher part.

 

"Helgi kom þar að úr hlíð  ofan  frá hrossum sínum og sá að Hallsteinn

var veginn." Helgi came there from the hillside above from his horses

and saw that Hallstein had been slain. (úr and frá both mean *from*)

 

Here I read it as a "coming down" from the hills.

But when you read it as a "coming down", it does not mean

that "ofan" *means* down. It *means* up. But when you

go *from* a higher place, you always end up in a lower

place.

 

 

"Holti hét maður, er nam Langadal  ofan  frá Móbergi og bjó á

Holtastöðum; "

Here Holti claims the  Langa Valley from *Moberg* (a high place)

and downwards fom there. A more literal translation would be

"Holti took Long-Valley from *up at* Mo-Mountain".

(and implicitly downwards from there)

 

 Another example of the same type:

" og [hann]kaupir land að Sleitu-Birni  ofan  frá Hálsgróf hinum

eystra megin og út til Kolbeinsáróss, "

(He buys land from *up at* Halsgrof and *out to* the mound

of the Kolbein-River.)

 

"Þeir Grettir og Björn lögðust í einu eftir allri Hítará  ofan  frá

vatni og út til sjóvar."

Grettir and Bjorn swam in one course the whole length of the Hitara

from *up at* the lake  and *down to* to the sea.

 

"Andlitsmein hafði hann og lá verkur í hinni hægri kinn  ofan  frá

auganu." His face was hurt and his right chin was inflamed

from *up at* his eye [and implicitly downwards from there]

 

"Nú ríða þeir Þráinn  ofan  frá Dal eftir eyrunum."

Now Thrainn and his men ride from *up at* Dal along

the sandy plains.(by the river mounds)

 

But the above examples deal with motion.

The quote from Hrafnkels saga, however, deals with a static

situation:

 

 "Þar ofan frá standa goðahús þau, er Hrafnkell hafði átt.

  Þorkell vildi koma þar."

Here it ought to mean that the "the god-houses" (plural)

that Hrafnkell had owned, stood (plural) *above from there*.

So the precipice is not the top of the mountain. But

the slopes continue upward from the location of the steep cliffs.

 

Well, that is how I read it.

 

Regards

Xigung

 

 

 

 

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "AThompson" <athompso@...> wrote:

>

> Uoden

> 

> Thanks for input but I'm not convinced. Zöega´s dictionary has 'ofan

frá' below (var verkr í enni hoegri kinn ofan frá auganu), which is

what I would have expected: ‘ofan’ from above, downwards, ‘frá’ from,

(hence my translation down from there). However my uncertainty arose

from seeing to separate English translations, one of which has down

there, the other which has standing above them. I thought maybe the

second translation may have been based on a variant original text but

it seems odd that the location of the temples could vary so greatly.

Were heathen temples normally located in high spots or low?

> 

> Kveðja

> Alan

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com

[mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Blanc Voden

> Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2006 10:11 PM

> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com

> Subject: [norse_course] Re: Hrafnkell 655-669 / Alan´s Translation

> 

> Hi there,

> 

> "þar ofan frá"

> 

> There above/over away/far: is near the meaning.

> 

> Langt frá: is far away. This is what "frá" indicates in this context.

> 

> And it is nat far away but far above.

> 

> kveðja

> 

> Uoden

> 

> 

> 

> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "AThompson" <athompso@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Here’s my translation and grammar notes. Seeking the second

> opinion on:

> > 

> > Þar ofan frá (line 660)

> > 

> > Kveðja

> > Alan

> > 

> > 655 Þeir leiða nú hestinn ofan eptir vellinum. Einn hamarr

> > They lead now the stallion down along the flat. A certain crag

> >

> > stendr niðr við ána, en fyrir framan hylr djúpr. Þar leiða

> þeir

> > stands down by the river, but in front of (it lies) a deep pool.

> There they lead

> >

> > nú hestinn fram á hamarinn. Þjóstarssynir drógu fat eitt á

> > now the stallion forward onto the crag. Thjóstar’s sons drew a

> certain bag over

> > 

> > höfuð hestinum, taka síðan hávar stengr ok hrinda hestinum

> > (the) head of the stallion, take afterwards tall poles and push

> the stallion

> >

> > af fram, binda stein við hálsinn ok týndu honum svá. Heitir

> > off forward, tie a stone around the (stallion´s) neck and lost

> (destroyed) him so. (It) is called

> >

> > þar síðan Freyfaxahamarr. Þar ofan frá standa goðahús þau,

> 660

> > there afterwards Freyfaxi´s Crag. Down from there stand those

> temple buildings

> >

> > er Hrafnkell hafði átt. Þorkell vildi koma þar. Lét hann

> fletta

> > which Hrafnkel had owned. Thorkel wanted to come there. He causes

> to strip

> >

> > goðin öll. Eptir þat lætr hann leggja eld í goðahúsit ok

> brenna

> > all the gods. After that he causes to set fire to the temple and

> to burn

> >

> > allt saman.

> > everything together.

> >

> > Síðan búask boðsmenn í brottu. Velr Sámr þeim ágæta gripi

> > Then (the) guests prepare (to) go on (their) way (ie away). Sám

> chooses excellent animals for them,

> >

> > báðum brÅ"ðrum, ok mæla til fullkominnar vináttu með sér ok

> 665

> > both brothers, and (they) speak of (express a wish for) complete

> friendship among themselves and

> >

> > skiljask allgóðir vinir. Ríða nú rétta leið vestr í fjörðu

> ok koma

> > part very good friends. (The brothers) ride now a direct route

> west into (the West)fjords and arrive

> >

> > heim í Þorskafjörð með virðingu. En Sámr setti Þorbjörn

> niðr

> > home in Thorskafjorð with honour. But Sám settled Thorbjörn down

> >

> > at Leikskálum. Skyldi hann þar búa. En kona Sáms fór til

> > at Leikskalar. He should reside there. But Sám´s wife went to

> >

> > bús með honum á Aðalból ok býr Sámr þar um hríð.

> > (the) farm with him at Athalból and Sám resides there for a time.

> > 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.

 

Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

 

To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:

 

norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Yahoo! Groups Links

 

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/

 

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

    norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:

    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

 

 

 

 

 

--

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/295 - Release Date: 28/03/2006