----- Original Message -----

From: kunphuzil

To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:33 PM

Subject: [norse_course] Re: Zoega conversion chart

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@......> wrote:
> Which seems very confusing to me.  I'd rather have arbitrary names
> that I can remember.  As Norse Course emphasizes though, different
> learning methods suit different people.  Old Norse Online [
> http://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/lrc/eieol/norol-TC-X.html ] uses
> the Germanic stem letter names, a-stems, etc.  This seems easiest to
> me, but maybe that's just because I was introduced to it that way,
> through Gordon's Introduction to Old Norse.  It worked for me partly
> as an arbitrary mnemonic, just like the numbers used by Zoega,
> except that it's also helpful for seeing the connections between
> other old Germanic languages.  If you already know some Old English
> or Gothic, etc., or if you go on to study these languages, it's
> convenient when text books use the same terminology.  Also I imagine
> letters and numbers as each having their own distinctive colour, so
> I see u-stems as black or very dark grey, and a-stems as sandy
> yellow, i-stems reddish pink...but that's another story.
>

Sure, the stem letters seem easier to me as well, but if I learn a new
word how am I to know it's stem through Zoëga's dictionary (without
having such a conversion chart that you provided). What do you do
personally, when learning a new word?

>
> Zoega conversion chart!!
> (I don´t know if this will help, or just add to the confusion):
>
> Nouns
>
> Zoega        Gordon, ON Online, Others
>
> masculine
>
> 1            heimr, himinn = a-stem; læknir, hilmir = ja-stem.
> 2            i-stem
> 3            u-stem
> 4            consonant stems
>
> feminine
>
> 1            nál = o-stem; fit = jo-stem (with short root syllable);
> heiðr = o-stem (with long syllable).
> 2            i-stem
> 3            consonant stems
>
> neuter
>
> 1            skip, barn = a-stem; nes = ja-stem (with short root
> syllable); högg = wa-stem.
> 2            ja-stem (with long root syllable)
>
>
>
> Weak Verbs
>
> Zoega          Others
> 1              2                               kalla
> 2              1 with long root syllable       doema
> 3              1 with short root syllable      spyrja
> 4              3                               vaka
>
>
> Strong Verbs
>
> 1              3           brenna
> 2              1           rísa
> 4              6           fara
> 5              5 (same)    gefa
> 6              4           bera
> 7              7 (same)    gráta, hleypa
>
>
>
>
>
> > > (að) means like 'kalla' [...]
>
>
> This is the easiest to remember and a good starting point.  If Zoega
> prints (að) in brackets after the infinitive, the verb is conjugated
> just like 'kalla'.
>
> In other books I've mostly seen this labelled as the 2nd weak
> conjugation, but Zoega labels it as the 1st.
>
>
>
>
> Other weak verbs will be recognisable as weak by the dental
> consonant or consonants, -t-, -d- or -ð-, in the endings printed by
> Zoega in brackets after the infinitive.  What follows isn't a
> complete explanation of all the possibilities by any means, but I'll
> just take three weak verbs as examples of what grammatical
> information can be worked out from the forms Zoega gives, then one
> strong verb.
>
>
> lykja (lyk, lukta, luktr) "to shut in, enclose, close; put an end
> to".
>
> lyk = 1st person present indicative singular, ek lyk "I close".
> lukta = 1st person past indicative singular, ek lukta "I closed".
> luktr = past participle, e.g. luktr hjálmr, a type of helmet
> (enclosing the head).
>
> The i-umlaut in the infinitive ('y' versus the 'u' of the past)
> tells you that this doesn't belong to the same class as 'vaka'.  The
> short root syllable (LYK + JA) tells you that it's conjugated like
> SPYRJA.  Let me know if I´m using unfamiliar terms here.
>
>
>
> lypta (-pta, -ptr) "to lift" also has an umlauted vowel, but because
> the root LYPT- is long (ends in two consonants), it stays umlauted
> in the past indicative, and is therefore conjugated like DOEMA
> (which is long by virtue of its long vowel).
>
> ek lypti "I lift"
> ek lypta "I lifted"
> ek em upp lyptr "I am lifted up" (or if I was female "lypt").
>
>
>
> For impersonal verbs, the past is shown by the 3rd person singular, -
> i, instead of -a.  And the past participle is shown in its neuter
> form.  E.g. lygna (-di, -t) "to become calm".
>
>
>
> Example of a strong verb: 'hefja' (hef; hóf, hófum; hafiðr and
> hafinn).  "and" indicates alternatives.  The first form in the
> brackets is the 1st person present indicative singular.  Next come
> the 1st person past singular and plural indicative.  Finally the
> past participle.
>
> ek hef "I lift"
> ek hóf "I lifted"
> vér hófum "we lifted"
> ek em upp hafinn "I am lifted up"
>
>
> Irregular or rarer types of weak verb have similar imformation. 
> Well, that's enough for tonight.  If this is all completely
> baffling, don't worry, I'm sure there are much better explanations
> in Norse Course and ON Online, etc.
>
> LN
>

Eh, the noun part of the conversion chart helped, but I'm still
working through how the information in the brackets help identify the
conjugation class. I still thank you greatly for your reply. I'll try
reading it again.