--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "akoddsson"
<konrad_oddsson@...> wrote:

> ea-to-ia before 900 (as above and as you show in your citations of
> 9th cent.

Do we have any indication as to how long before 900?

> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "laurenmur913"
> <laurenmur913@...> wrote:

> Wow, you know your stuff.

Don't be too sure of that! Konrad knows much more about this area
than me.

> As I mentioned, I am very new to this. Is

there a way to write the last name out in a more english spelling?
And could you also maybe spell it out phoneticly for me? I found some
info on Stjarna, for star. I found a great site that even helps with
the pronunciation. As for the characters, I do not recognize some of
the ones you have provided so I am unsure how that would be said.


The address here is a site with system for representing phonetic
symbols with computers. This will probably seem MORE complicated at
first, but at least it avoids the confusion and ambiguity of trying
to indicate pronunciation of foreign sounds with English conventions.

http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/home.htm


Stjarna Gyðjudóttir
Icelandic spelling. In this case, identical for Modern Icelandic
and standardised Old Norse.
1. Old Norse (13th c. reconstructed pronunciation)
[stjarna gyDjUdo:ttIr]--[j] = English <y> in 'yes'; [y] = French <u>
in 'fumer'; [U] = Northern British English <u> in 'gulp'; [o:] =
German <o> in 'tot'; [i] = English <i> in 'bit'; vowels all keep
their distinct quality, even in unstressed positions; and see
further explanation below.
2. Modern Icelandic [stjatna cIDjYtouhtIr]--explanation on demand!


Stiarna GyþjudóttiR
This I think is how the name might be transcribed if it had appeared
in a Swedish runic inscription of the 9th century. The
pronunciation would be similar to the Old Norse reconstructed one
above, except that <ia> is a falling diphthong, that is with the
emphasis on the first vowel <i>. The sampa symbol [D] is the sound
of <th> in English <the>. The <tt> was pronounced double, as in
modern Swedish or Italian. Think of English 'part-time'. I'm not
sure of the exact quality of the unstressed vowels, but presumably
something not too distant from this. According to
Gordon's "Introduction to Old Norse", medieval Swedish manuscripts
show a more careful system of vowel harmony than is usual in West
Norse, but I'm not qualified to comment on that.

The final <R> is somewhere between [r] and [Z], as mentioned. Maybe
pronounced like the Czech 'r' with a little upsidedown 'v' on top.
Or like the <s> in 'pleasure' but with a hint of [r]. Or like the
final sound you might hear in some Scottish pronunciations of
e.g. 'furs', 'hairs'. Of course, no one knows exactly, but there
are clues in the way it affected nearby vowels (suggesting a palatal
sound) and in the way it developed later, eventually becoming
confused with /r/.

To spell the name with English letters, you could go with either
Gythju- or Gydju-. The former might be a good idea because it makes
the sound clear to English speakers. The latter is perfectly
acceptable though and unambiguous in terms of the Norse sound
system. It's generally used in modern translations from Old Norse.
In fact some medieval manuscripts use <d> where modern editions
print <ð>. The marking of long vowels was very inconsistent in old
manuscripts, and wasn't a feature of runic orthography of the 9th
century. Konrad has suggested (for writing Proto Norse) using <z>
for the phoneme usually transcribed as <R>. That's one possibility:
Stiarna Gythjudottiz? Or if that looks too bizarre you could
(anachronistically) use the later spelling and just remember that it
was pronounced more like 'rz'. Or insist on runes... Speaking of
which:

http://www.arild-hauge.com/sruner.htm

Llama Nom