Hi there!
Finally I can get back to you about "með landi" and
"síðan".
Firstly, apologies. I got the wrong end of
the stick about "með landi". Here is the explanation my lecturer
gives:
you wanted to know about Hann ferr nú síðan suðr með landi
in Audunar
thattr. Literally, as you know, thie means 'He goes now afterwards south with
land', i.e. he follows the coast south. If Audun were on land (we know he's
not), the phrase would still work gramatically, but would it make any useful
sense? The 'land' goes in all directions, and wouldn't be a feature that he
would naturally follow. He might follow a headland, for example
(með
nesi), or some
other geographical feature: he might well follow the sea(-coast)
(með
sævi). I can't
see how fara með landi could work if he were travelling by
land, and I certainly don't recall seeing it anywhere. The phrase we have
in Audun is not uncommon and always occurs (as far as I know) during
descriptions of sea-voyages.
And here is what he says about "síðan"
I've never seen
"síðan" used spatially, and I'm quite confident in stating that it's a purely
temporal adverb, used to link sequences of events one after another.
'Afterwards' is an
adequate and indeed normal gloss for it, although we'd
most commonly render it with
'then'. 'Subsequently' is a bit flowery, but
might also do. Something that establishes a
temporal sequence, anyway. 'Nu'
(accent on the u!) is here part of the style - immediacy
of the colloquial
present tense - rather than actually contributing to the ordering of the
narrative's events.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Sarah.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 8:25
AM
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/
feedback Patricia: "með landi" along the coast?
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com,
"Sarah Bowen" <sarahbowen@......>
wrote:
> Great! Many thanks for this. I shall discuss
this with him and
let you know! Sometimes I reckon I learn more from
being in this
group than attending lectures - oooops, did I really say
that :-)
Hi Sarah,
Careful though, I could well be getting
confused... But if you get
a chance, could you also query síðan =
"further"? I can't find that
meaning in Zoega, only "afterwards",
"since", etc. The nearest I
can find in Cleasby & Vigsusson is:
lengi síðan "for a long time
after". But I can't see any spatial
meanings. Gwyn Jones just
has "He now proceeded south along the
coast".
If you have access to "Sweet's Anglo-Saxon Reader" Revised
throughout by Dorothy Whitlock, there's an interesting note in there
pp. 229-230, on Ohthere's use of "eastweard" when he seem to mean
south: "this agrees with Old Norse usage: the south coast of Norway
from Lindesnes to Oslo Fjord was known as _austr í Vík_, and
voyagers
travelling there, even from the north, speak of going
east." (Though
judging by Auðun they could add "south" as well.)
Apparently _í Vík
austr_ can also be used just to mean position,
without
movement:
Haraldr hét einn hersir ríkr ok ágætr í Vík austr
(Gríms
saga loðinkinna)
...which I suppose is a bit like _vestur þar í
fjörðum_ in the very
first line of Auðun.
Llama
Nom
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah Bowen"
<sarahbowen@...>
wrote:
> Great! Many thanks for
this. I shall discuss this with him and
let you know!
Sometimes I reckon I learn more from being in this
group than attending
lectures - oooops, did I really say that :-)
>
> Kveðja,
>
Sarah.
> ----- Original Message -----
>
From: llama_nom
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 5:20
AM
> Subject: [norse_course] Re: Auðun - 6/ feedback
Patricia: "með
landi" along the coast?
>
>
>
>
> > Like you, I thought "með landi" meant following the
coast but
> apparently here it is "by land" or "over
land". If someone can
give
> me a convincing
argument that this is incorrect, please do and
I´ll
>
discuss it with my lecturer :-)
>
>
> Hi
Sarah,
>
> Do you (or your lecturer!) have any
examples of it meaning "by
> land"? I just typed the
phrase into Google, and found plenty of
> quotes where it
seems to be "[by sea] along the coast". Here's
one
> with the verb _fara_:
>
> En er
Haraldr konungr varð þessa tíðinda víss, þá dró hann her
saman
> ok skaut skipum á vatn; bjósk síðan með lið mikit ok ferr
með
landi
> suðr... (Haralds saga ins Hárfagra,
36)
>
> Harald is on his way to fight a sea
battle. I suppose it
doesn't
> actually state
that he is on board, but I found plenty more with
> _sigla_
and other nautical verbs & contexts. Cleasy & Vigfusson
> have "sail along the shore" for: sigla með landi.
Also Gwyn
Jones
> has "south along the coast" at this
point in his translation
> of "Audun and the Bear".
And by sea might be a more sensible
way to
> travel in
medieval Norway... But I wonder if "með landi" could
> theoretically also mean "[by land] along the coast", in
the
right
> context? Or could it describle
position with no
motion: "situated
> along the coast"
(e.g. a cliff, or hills)? At Joshua 13,3, the
>
Icelandic Bible uses the phrase of a river, running along the
border
> of a country: frá Síhór, sem rennur fram með Egyptalandi
að
> austanverðu, til landamæra Ekron í norðri - það telst
með landi
> Kanaaníta...
>
> Llama
Nom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
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