Yes indeed Dirk both interesting and important, very worthy
of note, this translation stuff has got to me, I wonder what will be
thought of my second bit, knowing some German and O/E really seems to
help.
I have sent for the books and they are a long time coming,
it'll have me chewin' the nails off meself so it will.
Blessings
Patricia
PS Can you ket me know of a source ??online?? preferably
where there might be maps that would show where the different tribes were
situated, I should much appreciate this
I looked at some of my sources
today. You are right, Cleasby Vigfusson uses franklin as a
definition.
The deal, bond is not used a a meaning of bondi with CV
ON dictionary. But, I looked at Wright's Gothic Grammar to see where bond
fit in:
ga-bundi = bond ga being a common Gothic
prefix
Thus:
Gothic bundi - to
bond ON bondi
relating to the other
definition of bondi deriving from bua dwell. In gothic it is bua as well
which is related to baurgs or city. This relation of bau and baurgs makes
total sense but bau and baurgs is not etymologically related to
ga-bundi.
Cleasby - Vigfusson and subsequently Zoega got it wrong. ON
bondi is derived from the earlier Germanic Gothic word ga-bundi.
Some view Gothic a proto-Norse in a way because Goths came from
Scandinavia and were "Norse", i.e. northerners. Gothic is circa 300 CE
whereas ON is circa 1000 CE.
I believe this is very strong proof.
Interesting huh?
--- In
norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia" <originalpatricia@...>
wrote: > Another definition of bondi one which I like is
given by Zoega, and it is a franklin = which in mediaeval times certainly
meant a Freeholder of non-noble birth holding extensive property, I
cannot help thinking maybe bondsman or serf sounds a trifle too
servile, but Tenant I offer as my two pence (English currency), and
truly tenant I consider, if too modern then cerainly nearer the mark of
the man's status in the community >
Patricia > ----- Original Message -----
> From: Laurel Bradshaw
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 5:19
PM > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: I am
learning > > > The problem with
trying to be that "literal" is that word meanings do change over
time. I don't know any translators that would give "bondsman" as a
translation for "bondi" because the modern meaning contains the idea of
servitude. They weren't servants. I believe the relationship
was more contractual, much like a person today would have with their
employer. So farmer doesn't "quite" work either, but they were more
than a hired hand, and yeoman just sounds archaic. So I'll stick
with farmer, understanding that the actual social position was more
complex in a narrower sense perhaps) than that. If you choose to
use the word bondsman or bondwoman, it is with the same understanding
that the actual social position is more complex (though in a broader
sense) than that. Being conservative or more liberal in translation
is not better than... just a different way of approaching it.
That's why I give both a word-by-word and a "modern" translation. >
>
Laurel > ----- Original Message
----- > From: Dirk Howat
> To:
norse_course@yahoogroups.com >
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:28
AM > Subject: [norse_course] Re: I
am learning > > >
> Laurel, >
> I did not stat that this unfree
class was bound to the land, I was
> rather giving different
meanings to what a bondi could be in any
> context. >
> You stated: >
> >They held many rights under
the law in > > comparison to
the thralls. They could bear
witness, > > produce verdicts,
vote on public matters, attend >
> religious ceremonies, and make and bear weapons >
> They were not then totally
free, but constrained, bonded. It seems
> that they were bounded under
social norms and thus were bonded to a
> higher ruling class. Laurel, if
your supposition is correct then,
> when a translator reads bondi
in a ON text, as Sarah did, you would
> translate it as bondsmen or
bondwomen, as the case may be. Not
> farmer as seemingly all
translator normally do. Again, this is
> probably a semantic correlation
of functionality so the reader can
> get the drift. But the
translator could get it wrong. As you
> mentioned, if you read a bondi
going viking, well you would not want
> to translate it as a farmer
going viking, but a bondsmen going
> viking. This then affirms a
more literal translation method over a
> translation method less
conservative and more liberal where the
> translator gives his or her own
"take" on the story. > > > A
Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people. >
> Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/ >
> To escape from this funny farm try rattling
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