Can anyone recommend a solution for Office X for masc
users who would like to be able to type or pring Norse
characters?

By the way, what is the parent language of Old Norse


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>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Icelandic and Old Icelandic
> From: "William Calhoun"
> <wcalhoun13@...>
> 2. Re: Icelandic and Old Icelandic
> From: Haukur Thorgeirsson
> <haukurth@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 13:43:52 -0400
> From: "William Calhoun" <wcalhoun13@...>
> Subject: Icelandic and Old Icelandic
>
>
>
> I have studied modern Icelandic and I am well
> acquainted with the sounds of
> the language but I am correct in saying that modern
> Icelandic has a whole
> slew of new sounds that Old Norse did not? Is it
> safe to say that the
> pronunciation of Icleandic has changed a lot in the
> past 1000 years?
> Concerning the pronunciation of Old Norse, I should
> NOT pronounce:
>
> LL as in Icelandic 's�ll' (tl) but as an Icelandic L
> � as in Icelandic '�g' (ye)
> AU as in Icelandic 'auga' (French 'euille') but as
> English 'cow'
> � as in Icelandic '�r' but as a lengthened Icelandic
> A
> U as in Icelandic 'eru" but as an Icelandic �
> � as in Icelandic '<thorn>�r' (English 'die') but as
in
> English 'at'
> RN as in Icelandic 'barn' (dn) but as (rn)
> FN as in Icelandic 'nafn" but as (vn)
> RL as in Icelandic 'karl' but as (rl)
> V as in Icelandic 'vatn' but as in English 'water'
> HV as in Icelandic 'hva<eth>" but as in English
'what'
> O as in Icelandic 'kona' but as a Icelandic �
> Y/Y� as in Icelandic 'yfir'/'y�sa' but as in a short
> and long German � (�ber)
> or French u (tu)
> I as in Icelandic 'vi<eth>' but as an Icelandic �
> G in medial position as in Icelandic 'segir' but as
> in Icelandic 'gull'
>
> If this assumption is false, please let me know.
>
> Also I would like to know if you could tell me why
> the 'v�r' and '<thorn>�r' of
> Old Norse are 'vi<eth>' and '<thorn>i<eth>' in
modern Icelandic,
> which resemble more the
> dual pronouns of Old Norse.
> Thank you,
> William Calhoun
>
>
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:00:42 +0000
> From: Haukur Thorgeirsson <haukurth@...>
> Subject: Re: Icelandic and Old Icelandic
>
> > I have studied modern Icelandic and I am well
> acquainted with the sounds of
> > the language but I am correct in saying that
> modern Icelandic has a whole
> > slew of new sounds that Old Norse did not?
>
> I don't know about 'slew' but some, certainly :) And
> vice versa.
>
>
> > Is it safe to say that the
> > pronunciation of Icleandic has changed a lot in
> the past 1000 years?
>
> Sure.
>
>
> > Concerning the pronunciation of Old Norse, I
> should NOT pronounce:
> >
> > LL as in Icelandic 's�ll' (tl) but as an Icelandic
> L
> > � as in Icelandic '�g' (ye)
> > AU as in Icelandic 'auga' (French 'euille') but as
> English 'cow'
> > � as in Icelandic '�r' but as a lengthened
> Icelandic A
> > U as in Icelandic 'eru" but as an Icelandic �
> > � as in Icelandic '<thorn>�r' (English 'die') but
as in
> English 'at'
> > RN as in Icelandic 'barn' (dn) but as (rn)
> > FN as in Icelandic 'nafn" but as (vn)
> > RL as in Icelandic 'karl' but as (rl)
> > V as in Icelandic 'vatn' but as in English 'water'
>
> More or less.
>
>
> > HV as in Icelandic 'hva<eth>" but as in English
'what'
>
> Well... It's not exactly the same. But it seems both
> are classified
> as rounded voiceless labio-velar fricatives. To me
> the Icelandic sound
> is more clearly a fricative and the English one,
> even when clearly pronounced,
> sounds more like an approximant.
>
>
> > O as in Icelandic 'kona' but as a Icelandic �
>
> The Icelandic /�/ is a diphthong but the Old Norse
> /o/ was supposedly
> a monophthong. Got to love those phthongs.
>
>
> > Y/Y� as in Icelandic 'yfir'/'y�sa' but as in a
short
> and long German � (�ber)
> > or French u (tu)
> > I as in Icelandic 'vi<eth>' but as an Icelandic �
>
> More or less.
>
>
> > G in medial position as in Icelandic 'segir' but
> as in Icelandic 'gull'
>
> On the contrary. Medial /g/ was originally a
> fricative as in Icelandic 'dagur'.
> In 'segir' we can assume the alveolar fricative
> gaining palatilization to finally
> end up as /j/. In any case the /g/ in 'segir' was
> never pronounced as the
> /g/ in MI 'gull'.
>
>
> > Also I would like to know if you could tell me why
> the 'v�r' and '<thorn>�r' of
> > Old Norse are 'vi<eth>' and '<thorn>i<eth>' in
modern Icelandic,
> which resemble more the
> > dual pronouns of Old Norse.
>
> The old plural came to be an honorific form and the
> dual took over its function.
> This was fairly late in the day (15th-17th
> century?). The Icelandic bible distinguishes
> between dual and plural (though I don't think either
> Hebrew or Koine do so).
>
> Here's an example from the first chapter of John's
> gospel:
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 37 L�risveinar hans tveir heyr<eth>u or<eth> hans og
f�ru �
> eftir Jes�.
> 38 Jes�s sneri s�r vi<eth>, s� <thorn>� koma � eftir
s�r og
> sag<eth>i vi<eth> <thorn>�: "Hvers leiti<eth>
<thorn>i<eth>?"
> <THORN>eir svara: "Rabb� (<thorn>a<eth>
<thorn>y�<eth>ir meistari), hvar dvelst
> <thorn>�?"
>
> 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they
> followed Jesus.
> 38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and
> saith unto them, What seek ye?
> They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being
> interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Since the text states that there were exactly two
> disciples the translation
> uses the dual (hvers leiti<eth> _<thorn>i<eth>_).
Later on one of
> the two men says:
>
> ---------------------------
> "Vi<eth> h�fum fundi<eth> Mess�as!"
>
> We have found the Messias
> ---------------------------
>
> In the sixth chapther we find this:
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 67 <THORN>� sag<eth>i Jes�s vi<eth> <thorn>� t�lf:
"�tli<eth> <thorn>�r a<eth> fara
> l�ka?"
> 68 S�mon P�tur svara<eth>i honum: "Herra, til hvers
> �ttum v�r a<eth> fara? <THORN>� hefur or<eth> eil�fs
l�fs,
>
> 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go
> away?
> 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom
> shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In this case we know that Jesus is talking to 'the
> twelve' so the plural is called for.
> Peter replies in the plural since he is also
> referring to the lot of them.
>
> Kve<eth>ja,
> Haukur
>
>
>
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