Hi Xigung,

"But it doesn't necessarily mean "to run away" although in dangerous
situation a certain quickness of motion would also be implied. But an
escape from .e.g. a prison would, I think, also be a "komazk undan".


In Modern Swedish, 'komma undan' means "get away from (something/-
one)". E.g. "Jag kom undan med några skråmor", meaning "I got away
with [only] a few scratches". Similar construction using 'undan' are
possible:

'draga sig undan' - move out of the way,
'hålla sig undan' - keep away,
'lägga undan' - put aside,
'gånga undan' - go quickly,
'undan för undan' - bit by bit,
etc

The Swedish definition of the adverb 'undan' is "i riktning bort från
någon", translated "in direction away from something/-one".

I wonder if Old Norse has expressions like

*draga sik undan.
*halda sik undan,
*leggja undan,
*ganga undan,
*undan fyr undan,

with the same meanings as in the Swedish examples.

Regards,
/Sjurd

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "xigung" <xigung@...> wrote:
> Hi Alan,
> That was funny!
> In my browser your message looked really strange! [at first]
> (the new char for the "euro" monetary unit appeared
> several times) and I couldn't understand anything
> of what you had written with ON chars.
>
>
> But then I went up to the browser's "View" menu,
> and chose "Character Coding" > "Auto Detect" > "Universal".
> I also had to choose from the "Character Coding" submenu
> the option "Unicode(UTF-8)", which is at the very bottom.
> When I did that, as if miraculously, the text cleared up,
> and I could read it as straight-forward Old Norse".
> I think, with your system, you might also be able
> to go outside the old 255-char iso-scheme. Have you tried?
>
> Best
> Xigung
>
> P.S. With respect to the phrase "ganga undan", I have a
> feeling that it simply means "to go away". The reason
> is that directional information or instructions are often
> indicated by means of adverbs ending with the syllable -an.
> An example from the Edda is Vsp. 4: "Sól skein sunnann á salar
> steinar." (the Sun shone from the South onto the [ground's] stones)
> You can say that in this example the ending -an has the meaning
> of "from", i.e. is a directional indicator.
>
> "Below" in the sense of being situated on a lower level
> [than something else] is described by the preposition/adverb
> "undir". "Undan" does not solely refer to a strictly
> vertical line of positioning/motion, but can just as often be
> a reference to a motion "away from" something/someone.
>
> But it doesn't necessarily mean "to run away" although
> in dangerous situation a certain quickness of motion
> would also be implied. But an escape from .e.g. a prison
> would, I think, also be a "komazk undan".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Thompson" <athompso@...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Sarah
> >
> > Even though both versions make sense, the more I think about I’m
> still not convinced your interpretation is incorrect.
> >
> > The interpretation: “And those (horses) which never were
accustomed
> to run away from a man, now (unexpectedly) were (man)-shy” hinges
on
> “ganga undan” being translated as “run away” which is
consistent wi=
> th
> Zoega’s definition “to escape, to absent oneself”
> >
> > The interpretation: “And those (horses) which never were
accustomed
> to be ridden by a man, now (predictably) were man-shy” hinges on
> “ganga undan” , literally “to walk from beneath” being
interpreted =
> as
> “to be ridden by” which to me, on face value, could be
construed; but
> I guess one would have to know if there were other examples from the
> literature of it being used in this sense.
> >
> > Note also: gramatically, manni is dat sg of maðr, not pl.
> >
> > Question: Why is it skjõrr and not skjõr, in the neuter nom pl
form?
> >
> > Alysseann
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sarah Bowen [mailto:bowensli@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 12:33 AM
> > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [norse_course] Hrafnkel 101-125 / Laurel's
> >
> > Hi Laurel!
> >
> > I find it so helpful to do these translations as a group because
you
> get the benefit of another person´s perspective. I understood
> >
> > ok váru þau nú skjõrr, er aldri váru võn at ganga undan
manni,
> > and - were - these - now - shy - which - never - were -
accustomed -
> to - going - away from - people
> > but these (horses), which never used to run away from people, were
> now skittish,
> >
> > completely differently!!
> > I had it as [literally] the horses were never used to walk under a
> man - i.e. they were not used to being ridden (and so were
skittish)!!
> oops!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Sarah.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: HYPERLINK "mailto:llawryf@..."Laurel Bradshaw
> > To: HYPERLINK
> "mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com"norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:41 PM
> > Subject: [norse_course] Hrafnkel 101-125 / Laurel's
> >
> > Einarr kvað sér eigi mundu svá meingefit at ríða þeim hesti,
> > Einarr - declared - himself - not - should - so - maliciously
> inclined - to - ride - this - horse
> > Einar said that he would not be so ill-minded as to ride this
horse,
> >
> > er honum var bannat, ef þó væri mõrg õnnur til.
> > which - to him - was - forbidden - if - yet - were - many -
others -
> towards
> > which was forbidden to him, especially if there were many others
to use.
> >
> >
> > Einarr ferr nú heim eptir klæðum sínum ok flytr heim á Að
alból.
> > Einarr - goes - now - home - after - clothing - his - and -
removed
> - home - to - Aðalból
> > Einar then went home to get his clothing and moved over to
Adalbol.
> >
> > Síðan var fÅ"rt (foert) í sel fram í Hrafnkelsdal,
> > afterwards - was - brought - within - shieling - forward - in -
> Hrafnkelsdalr
> > After that (the sheep) were driven to a shieling in the upper part
> of Hrafnkel's Valley,
> >
> > þar sem heitir á Grjótteigsseli.
> > where - was called - Grjótteigssel
> > which was called the Grjotteig shieling.
> >
> > Einari ferr allvel at um sumarit,
> > Einarr - goes - very well - concerning - during - the summer
> > Einar fared very well at it during the summer,
> >
> > svá at aldri verðr sauðvant fram allt til miðsumars,
> > so - that - never - happens - missing sheep - from - all the way -
> to - midsummer
> > so that no sheep were lost in all the time up to midsummer,
> >
> > en þá var vant nær þremr tigum ásauðar eina nótt.
> > but - then - was - lacking - nearly - three - of ten - of ewe -
one
> night
> > but then one night nearly thirty ewes were missing.
> >
> > Leitar Einarr um alla haga ok finnr eigi.
> > seeks - Einarr - about - all - pastures - and - finds - not
> > Einar searched all the pastures and found nothing.
> >
> > Honum var vant nær viku.
> > to him - was - lack - nearly - a week
> > They were missing for almost a week.
> >
> >
> > Þat var einn morgin, at Einarr gekk út snimma,
> > it - was - one - morning - that - Einarr - goes - out - early
> > Einar went out early one morning,
> >
> > ok er þá létt af allri sunnanþokunni ok úrinu.
> > and - is - then - lifted - off - all - the mist from the south -
and
> - the drizzle
> > and the mist from the south and the drizzle had all cleared.
> >
> > Hann tekr staf í hõnd sér, beizl ok þófa.
> > he - takes - a staff - in - hand - his - a bridle - and - a
saddle-pad
> > He took a staff in his hand, a bridle and a saddle-cloth.
> >
> > Gengr hann þá fram yfir ána Grjótteigsá.
> > goes - he - then - forward - over - the river - Grjótteigsá
> > He went across the river Grjotteigsa (Grjotteig River),
> >
> > Hon fell fyrir framan selit.
> > it - flows - in front of - forward - the shieling
> > which flowed down from the shieling.
> >
> > En þar á eyrunum lá fé þat, er heima hafði verit um kveldit.
> > and - there - on - the gravel banks - lie - livestock - which - at
> home - had - been - during - the evening
> > There, lying on the gravel banks, were the sheep that had been at
> home during the evening.
> >
> > Hann støkkði því heim at selinu,
> > he - drove - it [the sheep, collectively] - home - to - the
shieling
> > He drove them back to the shieling,
> >
> > en ferr at leita hins, er vant var áðr.
> > and - went - to - seek - them - who - missing - were - earlier
> > and went to look for the ones who were missing earlier.
> >
> > Hann sér nú stóðhrossin fram á eyrunum
> > he - sees - now - the stud horses - forward - on - the gravel
banks
> > Then he saw the horses ahead on the gravel banks
> >
> > ok hugsar at hõndla sér hross nõkkurt til reiðar ok þóttisk
vita,
> > and - considers - to - seize - himself - a horse - certain/any -
for
> - service - and - thinking - to know
> > and decided to catch one of the horses to use, believing
> >
> > at hann mundi fljótara yfir bera, ef hann riði heldr en gengi.
> > that - he - would - more swiftly - over - to carry - if - he -
rides
> - rather - than - walks
> > that he would make quicker progress if he rode rather than walked.
> >
> >
> > Ok er hann kom til hrossanna, þá elti hann þau,
> > and - when - he - comes - up to - the horses - then - chases -
he - them
> > So when he reached the horses, he chased them,
> >
> > ok váru þau nú skjõrr, er aldri váru võn at ganga undan
manni,
> > and - were - these - now - shy - which - never - were -
accustomed -
> to - going - away from - people
> > but these (horses), which never used to run away from people, were
> now skittish,
> >
> > nema Freyfaxi einn.
> > except - Freyfaxi - alone
> > except for Freyfaxi alone.
> >
> > Hann var svá kyrr sem hann væri grafinn niðr.
> > he - was - as - quiet - as if - he - were - rooted - down
> > He was as still as if he were rooted to the ground.
> >
> >
> > Einarr veit, at líðr morgunninn, ok hyggr,
> > Einarr - knows - that - passes - the morning - and - considers
> > Einar knew that the morning was passing, and decided
> >
> > at Hrafnkell mundi eigi vita, þótt hann riði hestinum.
> > that - Hrafnkell - would - not - know - that - he - rides - the
stallion
> > that Hrafnkel would never know that he rode the stallion.
> >
> > Nú tekr hann hestinn ok slær við beizli,
> > now - takes - he - the stallion - and - forms - with - bridle
> > So he took the stallion and bridled him,
> >
> > lætr þófa á bak hestinum undir sik ok ríðr upp hjá
Grjótárgili,
> > places - saddlepad - on - back - the stallion - under - himself -
> and - rides - up - by - Grjótárgil
> > placed a saddlecloth under himself on the back of the stallion and
> rode up by Grjotargil (Rocky River Gorge?),
> >
> > svá upp til jõkla ok vestr með jõklunum,
> > also - up - to - glaciers - and - west - along - the glaciers
> > and up to the glaciers and west along the glaciers,
> >
> > þar sem Jõkulsá fellr undir þeim,
> > there - where - Jõkulsá - flows - away from - them
> > to where the Jokulsa (Glacier River) flows out from beneath them,
> >
> > svá ofan með ánni til Reykjasels.
> > also - down - along - the river - to - Reykjasel
> > and then down along the river to the Reykja shieling.
> >
> >
> > A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
> >
> > Homepage: HYPERLINK
> "http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/"http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
> >
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> >
> > Homepage: HYPERLINK
> "http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/"http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
> >
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