Thanks for your reply Jed!

With respect to 'sé', I do have a suggestion.
But first the text:

> Kømr nú þessi fregn fyrir Hrólf konung ok kappa
> hans upp í kastalann, at maðr mikilúðligr sé kominn
> til hallarinnar ok hafi drepit einn hirðmann hans,
> that a man of imposing appearance had come to the
> hall and killed one of his retainers,

I believe we often use a similar mode of expression
in Norwegian: "Og så kommer denne fragsagn fram
for kongen og hirden hans oppe i kastellet, at en
fryktinngydende man skal ha kommet til kongshallen
og ha drept en av kongens menn".

We use the form "skal ha kommet", in English perhaps
"is supposed to have come [to the hall]", as a way
of expressing that it is a "frasagn", i.e. something
people say, which are not always fact, or often facts
distorted by understatement/overstatement etc.

In Norwegian a pure subjunctive is hardly ever used
any more, except in old quotations. But formally
it is still there, and is, if I am not mistaken,
of the same form as the verb's infinitive.
(i.e. "en mann have kommet" vs. "en mann har kommet")

But German gives a much clearer example in the
difference "ein Mann ist gekommen" vs. "ein Mann sei
gekommen". And I believe the second form is often
used when you are relating something you have heard,
i.e. not something you have seen with your own eyes.
That is why I thought it might be a good idea to
add a word like "allegedly" or "is supposed to"
in English, so that the uncertainty is better taken
into account.

Best regards
Xigung.











--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Mcharg"
<Gerald.Mcharg@...> wrote:

> Xigung
> Thanks for your comments. As I'm working my way through Gordon's

Old Norse texts for the second time - and I really am labouring over
them! -you'll forgive me for not discussing all your comments and
suggestions. However, regarding your first comment, that I
translated 'kømr' as 'came' and not 'come'; this is deliberate. The
events related to the king are in the past, but the writer, wishing
to give an air of urgency or excitement about what has just happened
uses the 'historic present'. It's a literary device used in English
and Latin and classical Greek. Your second point that I have not
translated 'sé' as a subjunctive is valid. But I don't understand why
the the subjunctive, which deals with possible or conditional events,
is used here. It is a fact that Boðvar entered the hall; it is not a
possibility that may happen, and so I translated it in the indicative
and not the subjunctive mood. In fact, I think there is a nuance or
subtlety here which is beyond my perception, and if you or someone
else can show me where I'm going off track, I'll be grateful.

> Good luck and keep chiselling away at the translations!
> Cheers,
> Jed