Hi Xigung!

I agree with you that the classification of words is not a clear-cut thing.
To give you an example, the word "garden" would normally be classed as a
noun, but when you talk about "a garden party", it becomes an adjective!
The contexts Gorden gives for when "við" is an adverb are

Hundrinn kvað við hátt, svá at þótti þeim með ódoemum miklum vera (from
Brennu-Njáls Saga)

"Eigi veit ek þat," sigir Skarpheðinn, ok brá við grönum ok glotti at.
(from Brennu-Njáls Saga)

Görðu þeir þá hríð ina þriðju ok váru við lengi; eptir þat...
(from Brennu-Njáls Saga)

Vildi Glámr leita út, en Grettir foerði við foetr hvar sem hann mátti.
(from Grettis Saga)

You mention adverbs in connection with verbs in English, but adverbs often
relate directly to the meaning of other elements too. For example,
very anxiously = adverb + adverb
quite a party = adverb + noun
someone else = pronoun + adverb
I take the view that it is the function a word has in a sentence which
decides which word class it belongs to. Adverbs usually add extra
information about the situation, such as the time of action, its location or
how the action was performed. I think therefore you can argue that "hann
setr við holan lófann" describes how the action was performed, hence "við"
is an adverb.

If you like, I could email Michael Barnes and ask him to explain how the two
examples you gave of "setja við" differ from "hann setr við holan lófann".
Let me know if you want me to do this.

Kveðja,
Sarah.

----- Original Message -----
From: "xigung" <xigung@...>
To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:16 PM
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Bodvar Bjarki part 2!


Hi Sarah!
It puzzles me a bit that Gordon should call "við"
an adverb. I looked in Zoëga and found it classified
as a normal preposition that can takes either dative
or accussative.

But I suppose this might merely reflects different philosophies,
for I believe in this case it should be seen as an adjunct
to the verb "setja". But honestly, if you in English
say (for example) "I've got my mind set on grammar",
then "on" is not an adverb, is it?

(However "on" can be an adverb if I say "Carry on!"
But then the verb lacks an object)

In Zoëga there is a list of combinations of setja with
prepositions and adverbs. For example, with af, at, á,
niðr, upp, við and yfir. Under setja við there are two
examples, namely

1) setja e-t við e-u, to set against
(þat þótti höfðingjum ofrausn ok settu mj?k hug sinn við)
and 2) to bet
(ek set við hundrað marka silfrs, at hann ríðr mik eigi af baki)

In both cases við serves as preposition for the objects
"hug sinn" and "hundrað marka".
In the example from Hrólfs saga, there is the object
"holan lofann" that plays exactly the same role.

--- In norse course Sarah Bowen wrote:
> And now for the last few lines...
>
> Hann setr við holan lófann ok tekr svá við knútunni,
> þar fylgir leggrinn með...

> You got the meaning of this - one or two minor points...
The object in all clauses is in the
singular "lófann", "knútunni", "leggrinn".
> Also "við" can either be a preposition or an adverb depending on
the context. Here it is an adverb. According to Gordon´s glossary
as an adverb, "við" can be translated as either
> at this, thereupon, back, against, at it. "setr" can either be 'he
set, placed or put' so literally this can be translated as 'he set,
placed or put the hollow of his palm at it" i.e. he cupped his hand.
Jed, according to my lecture notes and the translations by Byock and
Jones, "setr við" is nothing more complicated than this.
> "Þar fylgir leggrinn með" implies the leg-bone was attached to the
knuckle-bone.
>
> Böðvarr sendi aptr knútuna ok setr á þann sem kastaði, ok rétt
framan í hann með svá harðri svipan at hann fekk bana.
> Interesting that you both have 'in his face' for "rétt framan". I
know in modern Icelandic "í framan" can refer to the face e.g. hann
var fölur í framan - he was pale/his face was pale, but here it is an
adverb meaning directly at (him). This concurs with Byock's and
Jones' translations - smack at him, into the man.

To move "straight ahead" would be something like "ganga
beint áfram", which is probably what they would say
about steering a straight course, but also about objects
that are thrown so hard that they move in a straight
line (in English "straight ahead").

Btw I think I took a look at Byocks translation a few
weeks ago, but I found it was a rather loose translation,
and hence not very useful if you are interested in
grammatical details.


Best,
Xigung


>
> Hope this is helpful. I'll post up the next section in a day or
so. If anyone else wants to join in, please feel free.
>
> Kveðja,
> Sarah.
>
> p.s. do you want feedback in such detail or is the grammatical
side rather off-putting? Let me know if I'm boring you!!

I think your comments make things a lot more interesting !






A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.

Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:

norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/