On Wed, Apr 02, 2003 at 08:00:52AM -0800, William Cocker wrote:

>
> This is a perfect example of what I am not interested in. The symbols do not
> intimidate me, as in the dim dark past I used to program in APL, which is
> mostly greek symbols and math. To me the below is very uninteresting,
> supremely boring, gobbledegook. Help, I am being held prisoner in a Norse
> funny farm. Please Mr. Moderator, Sir, throw me off this list!

Please let me know whether this is intended as humour, or whether you have
in fact tried and failed to unsubscribe from the group.

>
> Bill Cocker
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon W" <gorw@...>
> To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:32 AM
> Subject: [norse_course] To Xigung about ä and ö in Swedish
>
>
> > Hello Xigung,
> >
> > About the graphemes <ä> and <ö>.
> >
> > > Try then to simultaneously answer the two questions
> > > 1) why was a "dot" used,
> > > 2) why was the dot(s) placed above the letter?
> > > The answer, as I have understood it, is that it was
> > > simply a question of borrowing from another letter,
> > > namely the "i", which is the origin of the dot placed
> > > above the letter.
> >
> > The german (fraktur) letters <ä> and <ö> where initially written as A and
> O
> > with a small <e> ontop of them, to indicate that the pronounciation should
> be
> > closer to /e/.
> >
> > Before the introduction of <ä> and <ö> into swedish writing, we used <æ>
> > and <ø> which originally were ligatures of a+e and o+e.
> >
> > The swedish grapheme <å> (was designed the same way modelling the early
> <ä>.
> > So, indicating it should be pronounced closer to /o/. (In modern Swedish,
> /å/
> > is equivalent to [o:], and it has been for quite some time, since original
> Old
> > Swedish /a:/ has shifted to /o:/). It was used sporadically in the 15th
> > century, but became very common after the book printer Jörgen Richolff
> used
> > it in all books printed at Kungliga tryckeriet from 1526 and onwards,
> > primarily the New Testament (August 1526).
> >
> > The reason for the change in Sweden was that the first swedish book
> printers
> > used german types, this occured in the 16th century. They where not
> > incorporated into danish writing. (here is an example:
> > http://www.danmark.dk/forside.asp)
> >
> > <ä> and <ö> with dots, instead of an small e, developed out of "den
> > senmedeltida gotiska skrivstilens motsvarande typer", according to Wessén,
> > 1995. It could be difficult to see the difference between ä and o in
> fraktur
> > printing, while the ä was written with an e. The dots where more clearer.
> The
> > dots where introduced in antikva in 1730, and in fraktur about a hundred
> years
> > later, also according to Wessén.
> >
> > > Then some time later the "double-horned o" must have
> > > arrived in Iceland as a Danish export and came in vogue
> > > there.
> >
> > I believe I've read somewhere, that the adoption of <ö> into modern
> icelandic
> > writing was in part because of a wish to distance themselves from denmark
> > after the independence, to whom iceland for quite some time and been a
> > province. Maybe someone else on the list could clarify this. It is, in any
> > case, not a danish export.
> >
> > > Any way, as I have understood from perusing some
> > > textbooks on modern Icelandic, the ö is now a
> > > diphtong - can you confirm this? (pronounced in
> > > a way that is best reflected by the combination
> > > "ai" relative to Norwegian)
> >
> > Modern Icelandic <ö> is pronounced as Swedish /ö/. Icelandic <æ>, is
> > however pronounced as /ai/.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Gordon
> > Stockholm, Sweden
> >
> >
> >
> > Sumir hafa kvæði...
> > ...aðrir spakmæli.
> >
> > - Keth
> >
> > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Sumir hafa kvæði...
> ...aðrir spakmæli.
>
> - Keth
>
> Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

--
Arlie

(Arlie Stephens arlie@...)