Heilir Stuntie and Konrad!

It is interesting to note that the symbol used for 'ok' is the same as that
used for 'agus' "and" in Irish (<OIr 'acus'). Perhaps this is a case of Irish
influence, especially considering the Irish were using it long before the Norse
had Latin letters?

German and (archaic) English have 'auch' and 'eke', beside 'und' and 'and' for
"and". Also, Irish has 'ach' for "but". Ultimately, it seems to be a particle
of Indo-European antiquity (*-kwe), from which is derived, in addition to the
above, Gothic 'ja-h', Latin '-que', Mycenaean '-qe' > Greek 'kai' and 'te',
Armenian '-k'', Hittite '-ki', Avestan and Sanskrit 'cha', all meaning "and"
(Mallory and Adams, "Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture", 1996).
Furthermore, Cleasby points out similar constructions that strengthen the
identity (ie. Lat. 'ne-que' = Goth. 'ne-uh' (PGmc *ne-hu > ON 'né') = Irish
'na-ch'). According to Cleasby, 'ok' or 'auk' is derived from a similar
compound '*já-uh' > 'auh' > 'auk' > 'ok'. 'Auk' was also in use in ON, as an
adverb and conjunction, meaning "besides, also". I think this derivation is
much more likely than from any verb.

Dan

Stuntie wrote:

> 'auk' is the most common runic spelling - but given the fact that 'o' was
> dropped so 'ok' was not possible, that is not cast iorn proof for 'auk'.
>
> Cleasby Vigfusson thinks its from a cognate of Gothic jah (with loss of
> initial j and k from the 'h' - the phonteic sound looks like an X but is a
> guttural 'ch' sound.
>
> German and English have 'und' and 'and' - so no help there.
>
> Also manuscripts use a shorthand type symbol for and, so once again no help
> there...
>
> This is quite a hard question.
>
> But I think it may be best to look towards the other languages for possible
> answers rather than later Old Norse forms, as they have often been altered
> during the transitional period and so can be missleading.
>
> Cheers
> Stuntie.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: konrad_oddsson <konrad_oddsson@...>
> > [mailto:konrad_oddsson@...]
> > Sent: 18 February 2003 12:46
> > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [norse_course] Ok hvaðan er 'ok' ? - Það er spurningin - a
> > short quiz
> >
> >
> > What is the true origin of the most common word in every modern
> > Scandinavian language? What is the origin of the common conjuction
> > 'ok'? - Það er spurningin (That is the question)
> >
> > On the Stone at 'Eggjum' (650-800) in Norway, we see that this word
> > is spelled 'uk'. The inscriber could have spelled it 'ok', as O/Ó
> > was still in the alphabet and is used many times for other words in
> > the same inscription. On the other hand, on the Stone at Glavendrup
> > (900-925) in Denmark we see that this word is spelled 'auk'. Which
> > spelling most accurately represents the true origin of the word?
> >
> > Here are some clues:
> >
> > 'Ok' could be derived from the verb 'auka', meaning to 'increase'.
> > If this is correct, then the phrase 'Jón ok Páll' (John and Paul)
> > would literally translate as 'John increase Paul'.
> >
> > 'Ok' could be derived from the verb 'oka', meaning to 'harness' or
> > to 'yoke'. The verb is derived from Proto-Norse *yuka. If this is
> > correct, then the phrase 'Jón ok Páll' (John and Paul) would
> > literally translate as 'John yoke Paul'.
> >
> > In either case, the meaning is clear. Here is the question again:
> > which is the true origin of this most common word in any modern
> > Scandinavian language? Is it 'uk' or is it 'auk'?
> >
> > - Það er spurningin (That is the question). Whoever answers this
> > this question wins the Norse grand linguistics prize. Please post
> > your answers and any information you can find about this online.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Konrad.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sumir hafa kvæði...
> > ...aðrir spakmæli.
> >
> > - Keth
> >
> > Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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>
> - Keth
>
> Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
>
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--
Daniel Bray
dbray@...
School of Studies in Religion A20
University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia

"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
H. G. Wells (1866 - 1946)