From: Andreas Zautner
Message: 1911
Date: 2002-05-17
> Good post DS,________________________________________________________________
>
> After doing some digging it appears that in Old Icelandic (Zoega) 'Barð' is
> a term with a lot of use for objects that share common characteristics while
> 'Skegg', as many have already stated, is the true word for "Beard".
>
> Some objects "Barð" can be used for are:
> -The reinforced/decorated prow of a ship.
> -The brim of a hat
> -A beard
> -A kind of axe
>
> The common characteristics of these objects is that they are
> pointing-forward or leading ahead of the object they are attatched to. The
> prow of a ship the furthest most forward point of that ship. A beard or the
> brim of a hat is furthest forward part of a man. An axe-head would be the
> furthest forward point of both the whole axe itself or of a warrior weilding
> it in battle.
>
> I now suspect the term "Barð" to actually mean that observed characteristic,
> with a possible English equivalent in 'Bow' (as in the Bow of a ship versus
> it's Aft, not the weapon that flings arrows). But I may be wrong.
>
> With this information, I don't believe that the term "Barð" for "Beard" is
> Latin based, but instead is a Kenning that was used to poetically refer to a
> beard and had the added bonus of sounding like a Latin word: 'Barbus'. That
> is, unless there happen to be a Latin term related to my observations above.
>
> At the same time, I am now curious what "Longobardi" means. I always thought
> it meant "Long-Beards".
>
> -Lazarus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deep Stream" <DeepStream@...>
> To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 6:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: Names of Odhinn
>
>
> > > Norse was used most about 900 years AFTER
> > > Herman Cerusci slaughtered Varius'
> > > Legions, so I don't think there's a problem
> > > with any Old Norse words with
> > > Latin origins. It's not like Snorri introduced
> > > Latin to the Scandinavians
> > > all by himself.
> >
> >
> > I don't think it's sustainable to argue a
> > significant Latin source in Norse: foreign words
> > don't wander into a language merely because
> > certain speakers know the foreign language - to
> > really become part of the home language, the
> > foreign words must enjoy *usage*.
> >
> > And already comparing the German dialects (not to
> > mention comparing German to Scandinavian
> > languages) one can see that Latin has come into
> > German through the Roman occupation: Latin-origin
> > words in the "High" German (spoken in areas once
> > under Roman occupation) are not represented in
> > the "low" German (spoken in areas the Romans
> > never occupied).
> >
> > A good example of this is the High German word
> > "Fenster" ("Window" - from Latin Fenestre). The
> > Romans brought the occupied Germans the concept
> > of a hole in the midst of the wall that could be
> > opened and closed, as opposed to a permanent hole
> > at the top of buildings as they had originally
> > built. Thus the term "Fenster" came into the
> > German language through reference to this
> > innovation. In northern Germany, however, the
> > term for window has always been "Windauge"
> > (wind-eye or wind-hole) because the occupation
> > never brought the Latin term into use.
> >
> > A good example of this in German/Scandinavian
> > comparison is the German word "Tisch" (Table -
> > from Latin "Diskus"). The Romans brought the
> > concept of a round table at which the food could
> > be arranged equidistan from all those seated,
> > rather than the rectangular table commonly used.
> > So the word came into the German language through
> > reference to this innovation. In Scandinavia,
> > however, the term for table has allways been
> > related to the term "Bord" (Board), because Roman
> > occupation never brought the Latin term into use.
> >
> > "Learned" men in both northern Germany and
> > Scandinavia certain all knew the Latin terms for
> > a round table and a window; however, they were
> > not able to introduce them to their native
> > languages.
> >
> > So, to argue that the Latin term for "Beard"
> > somehow became used in Norse, it would be
> > necessary to identify (a) intensive exposure to a
> > latin or romance language such as occupation and
> > (b) a significant difference (ie a special kind
> > of beard that the latin or romance speakers made
> > popular among the Norse) that would have been
> > worth making reference to.
> >
> > The only long-shot for this that occurs to me is
> > that the Norse settling Normandy used the romance
> > term to refer to a specific kind of beard common
> > to the natives, and that this term was taken over
> > before the Normans dropped Norse usage
> > completely. However, this is so unlikely it's not
> > worth pursuing.
> >
> > To argue that both languages carried a similar
> > term for "beard" from the original IndoEuropean,
> > it would be necessary to demonstrate that the
> > term were used in other circumstances in Norse.
> > As the word used in other circumstances is
> > "skegg", it is clear that Norse and Latin
> > developed their respective words for "beard" from
> > different sources (possibly still both
> > IndoEuropean: the Germanic and Latin words for
> > "knowledge", for instance, both come from
> > IndoEuropean - but from completely different
> > IndoEuropean source words. The IndoEuropean used
> > two different terms for types of "knowing" they
> > perceived to be different, one being handed down
> > to the Germanic and one to the romance
> > languages).
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Kindest Regards,
> > - DeepStream
> > |'''' ''''||'''' '||'''' '':
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> > - Keth
> >
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> Sumir hafa kvæði...
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>
> - Keth
>
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