In Simeks encyclopedia of germanic mythology Hárbarðr
is also translated as "grey beard"

But in Hárbarðsljóð Oðinn is a kind of ferryman
so I think it makes sense that according to the
meaning of "prow of a ship" for "Barð"
Hárbarð could also have a the meaning of
(somebody) the High one who is leading ahead .
Hárbarðr could be an Oðinsheite that stands
for God who leads ships like a ferryman.
A Translation like "Hair Beard" or "Grey-Beard" makes not much sense in the case of the Hárbarðsljóð to me.
There exists the Oðinsheite Siðskeggr that stands for
"Broad Beard" or "Long Beard".
Why should Siðskeggr and Hárbarðr have the same
meaning.


I 've also looked up longobardi/Langobarden in some books
and often I found the translation "Long-beards"

In Döblers encyclopedia "Die Germanen" I found :

longobardi
There are different possible interpretations for this name.
probably they are not "Long beards" but men with long
"Barten" that means "Beile"(germn. hatchets)

So it is possible that the longobardi get their names
for the axes/hatches they used like
the Saxons for their sax (short sword)
and the Franks for their frakka (spear).

kveðja
Andreas



norse_course@yahoogroups.com schrieb am 16.05.02:

> Good post DS,
>
> After doing some digging it appears that in Old Icelandic (Zoega) 'Barð' is
> a term with a lot of use for objects that share common characteristics while
> 'Skegg', as many have already stated, is the true word for "Beard".
>
> Some objects "Barð" can be used for are:
> -The reinforced/decorated prow of a ship.
> -The brim of a hat
> -A beard
> -A kind of axe
>
> The common characteristics of these objects is that they are
> pointing-forward or leading ahead of the object they are attatched to. The
> prow of a ship the furthest most forward point of that ship. A beard or the
> brim of a hat is furthest forward part of a man. An axe-head would be the
> furthest forward point of both the whole axe itself or of a warrior weilding
> it in battle.
>
> I now suspect the term "Barð" to actually mean that observed characteristic,
> with a possible English equivalent in 'Bow' (as in the Bow of a ship versus
> it's Aft, not the weapon that flings arrows). But I may be wrong.
>
> With this information, I don't believe that the term "Barð" for "Beard" is
> Latin based, but instead is a Kenning that was used to poetically refer to a
> beard and had the added bonus of sounding like a Latin word: 'Barbus'. That
> is, unless there happen to be a Latin term related to my observations above.
>
> At the same time, I am now curious what "Longobardi" means. I always thought
> it meant "Long-Beards".
>
> -Lazarus
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deep Stream" <DeepStream@...>
> To: <norse_course@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 6:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: Names of Odhinn
>
>
> > > Norse was used most about 900 years AFTER
> > > Herman Cerusci slaughtered Varius'
> > > Legions, so I don't think there's a problem
> > > with any Old Norse words with
> > > Latin origins. It's not like Snorri introduced
> > > Latin to the Scandinavians
> > > all by himself.
> >
> >
> > I don't think it's sustainable to argue a
> > significant Latin source in Norse: foreign words
> > don't wander into a language merely because
> > certain speakers know the foreign language - to
> > really become part of the home language, the
> > foreign words must enjoy *usage*.
> >
> > And already comparing the German dialects (not to
> > mention comparing German to Scandinavian
> > languages) one can see that Latin has come into
> > German through the Roman occupation: Latin-origin
> > words in the "High" German (spoken in areas once
> > under Roman occupation) are not represented in
> > the "low" German (spoken in areas the Romans
> > never occupied).
> >
> > A good example of this is the High German word
> > "Fenster" ("Window" - from Latin Fenestre). The
> > Romans brought the occupied Germans the concept
> > of a hole in the midst of the wall that could be
> > opened and closed, as opposed to a permanent hole
> > at the top of buildings as they had originally
> > built. Thus the term "Fenster" came into the
> > German language through reference to this
> > innovation. In northern Germany, however, the
> > term for window has always been "Windauge"
> > (wind-eye or wind-hole) because the occupation
> > never brought the Latin term into use.
> >
> > A good example of this in German/Scandinavian
> > comparison is the German word "Tisch" (Table -
> > from Latin "Diskus"). The Romans brought the
> > concept of a round table at which the food could
> > be arranged equidistan from all those seated,
> > rather than the rectangular table commonly used.
> > So the word came into the German language through
> > reference to this innovation. In Scandinavia,
> > however, the term for table has allways been
> > related to the term "Bord" (Board), because Roman
> > occupation never brought the Latin term into use.
> >
> > "Learned" men in both northern Germany and
> > Scandinavia certain all knew the Latin terms for
> > a round table and a window; however, they were
> > not able to introduce them to their native
> > languages.
> >
> > So, to argue that the Latin term for "Beard"
> > somehow became used in Norse, it would be
> > necessary to identify (a) intensive exposure to a
> > latin or romance language such as occupation and
> > (b) a significant difference (ie a special kind
> > of beard that the latin or romance speakers made
> > popular among the Norse) that would have been
> > worth making reference to.
> >
> > The only long-shot for this that occurs to me is
> > that the Norse settling Normandy used the romance
> > term to refer to a specific kind of beard common
> > to the natives, and that this term was taken over
> > before the Normans dropped Norse usage
> > completely. However, this is so unlikely it's not
> > worth pursuing.
> >
> > To argue that both languages carried a similar
> > term for "beard" from the original IndoEuropean,
> > it would be necessary to demonstrate that the
> > term were used in other circumstances in Norse.
> > As the word used in other circumstances is
> > "skegg", it is clear that Norse and Latin
> > developed their respective words for "beard" from
> > different sources (possibly still both
> > IndoEuropean: the Germanic and Latin words for
> > "knowledge", for instance, both come from
> > IndoEuropean - but from completely different
> > IndoEuropean source words. The IndoEuropean used
> > two different terms for types of "knowing" they
> > perceived to be different, one being handed down
> > to the Germanic and one to the romance
> > languages).
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Kindest Regards,
> > - DeepStream
> > |'''' ''''||'''' '||'''' '':
> > ||'''' ''''|'|||'''' '||'''' '|'''':
> > ||'|'''|'''' ':|||''''||'''' ':|||''''||'''' ':
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> >
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> >
> > - Keth
> >
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> Sumir hafa kvæði...
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>
> - Keth
>
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