Hi all,

For those new ones who are not already acquainted with me, I'm that
other guy whose name is mentioned on the front page of the course's
home page :) I'm just appearing now to help Haukur clarify
this 'silent r' thing...

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Hrimalf wrote:

>OK, I understand that the -r is meant to be pronounced. My next

question is; how do I do that? Is it rolled? Is it like the english
-er (as in speaker, softer, etc)? Is it like a vacuum cleaner type
noise (sorry can't describe this more technically!) with teeth shut
and lips open? Do we know?

Good question (whether we know) :)

We (or rather, the historical linguists) have projected with fair
enough accuracy (for all purposes) that the 'z' sound of various
Germanic endings (most notably the nominative of strong masculines)
evolved into a rolled 'r' sound in the language of the Nordic peoples
in the late 1st millenium AD.
Evolved, that is, through a transition sound described as "mid
between 'r' and 'z'", "trilled fricative", "rzh". _A sound that I
frankly do not comprehend and have never heard anything like_. In
fact, this transition sound isn't really important to our studies
of "Old Norse" at all. Please don't feel obliged to divert any
thought to the matter :)

Admittedly, the complexity and length of the two paragraphs above
may be excessive; I just wanted to get everything *correct*.

To conclude, and simplify: the ending -r is conventionally
*pronounced* as the trilled 'r' sound in all its other positions.

The exact pronunciation of 'r', in Modern Icelandic at least, is
variable between speakers, in what regards the "number of trills" -
some (such as me) merely tap the tongue once or twice against the
alveolum. It may vary by position, and will often vary by what is
being said, i.e. by whether the speaker wants to emphasize something
or otherwise make special effects (as is done in most languages,
including English).

>PS you write 'Hrimalfr' - this is a minor point but I am actually

female so presumably it is without the -r? How do you write female
elf? I don't really want to change my nickname as I've had it for
years :-(

In no case should you, as long as you're using "conventional Old
Norse", drop the nominative -r of 'álfr' simply because of you being
female :) The fact is that _the word is masculine_. E.g. if I point
to a female elf and say "she's an elf", I'd say "Hon er álfr".

In reality, a name ending in 'álfr' simply would never be given to
a female. However, you like your nickname and want to keep it, and
that's fine :) So, the good news is that the word's being masculine
won't stop you from being a 'Hrímálfr' (Frost Elf), though it should
be correctly declined nonetheless.

This touches once again on a recurring subject:
_Grammatical gender IS NOT EQUAL TO natural gender_

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Lazarus wrote:

> In person it sounded either like a half vowelized 'r' or a '-ch'
> so 'Galdur' sounded either like 'Garder' or 'Gulch'
>
> Which way is considered more proper?
> And which way will keep you from getting laughed at?

Probably neither :) However, the 'gulch' pronunciation would most
likely not be comprehensible to Icelanders at all. Stick rather to
the 'garder' - it is certainly the best (of bad) approximation(s) :)

Regards,
Óskar