Hei Selvarv!
Thank you for your offer. But I didn't find "NordStudie" on Yahoo.
Is it somewhere else?

>Óskar wrote:
> >But you won't get that here; unfortunately, we don't provide it. This
> >course is designed for people of a completely different linguistic
> >background. Observing that most of the ON enthusiasts are
> >English-speakers without prior knowledge of foreign languages or
> >education in classical grammar, we have designed the course to guide
> >the student, step-by-step, in a "protected environment" (where we
> >select what words and what grammar the student encounters).

Question to Oskar:
Do you mean that some words are legitimate and others aren't?
(as list topics)
Some days ago I posted a list of meanings that belongs to the verb "vega"
which would then be one of the "legitimate" words. I hope you received
it all right. (it included etymologies as well)
I hope my comment that it could also mean to "weigh" as well as
to "build roads", was well taken.

Gathering that information together took me some time, you know.
and I thought the end result was well worth sharing with the list.
I hope you appreciated it too.

I asked you what dictionary/dictionaries/grammarbooks are your
own favorite tools when you want to find out things about Old Norse.
But you did not reply that question. (yet)

>Hej Óskar,
>
>I'd just like to say, that being raised with American English (although
>with huge influences of British English which have forever marked my
>spelling and diction), but having a background in foreign languages,
>grammar analysis, and even a bit of Old Icelandic at this point, I realise
>that this course also isn't the one for me (although kudos to yourself and
>Haukur in presenting the material so well for the intended audience).

I actually did read through the lessons, and I also did some of the excercises.
I realize that I probably should have done more of them, and written
down the solutions with pencil and paper. But somehow, I belong to
a younger generation that no longer posesses the zeal for tedious
study that the old generation used to have. Nevertheless, I am perfectly
capable of learning languages, since I have already learned several.
But I am affraid the methods that suit my character are more of a
playful/explorative/communicative kind. (naturmetoden)


Who was it that mentioned writing some C-programs (or was it Java)
that might be useful for language study? Was it Arlie?
How about creating a web page where there is a language test.
Let's say there was a list of one hundred "legitimate" nouns.
(an arbitrary number, here only by way of example)
You then go to the web page and you press a button called <Test Noun>.
The web page then draws one of the hundred nouns "from the bag" at random.
Let us say the word "wolf" comes up. You then press another button
on the web page, say <Test Declination>, and the java-routine answers
by popping up a dialogue box that says (for example) "2nd plur".
You the have to fill in what you think the 2nd plur of "ulfr"
is. To produce variation, it will sometimes also ask you to fill
in the determined conjugation (ulfrinn etc). One might then
set oneself speed goals. For example "can you correctly decline 10
randomly chosen nouns in a minute?"

Also, when you start the test, there might be a panel, where you
choose your level. e.g. level = "Lesson 03". You will then be tested
on all the nouns that are legitimate up to and including Lesson 3.
Many variations are possible.

Is there anyone around on this list who might be able to write such
a program without too much difficulty?

>However, that's part of the reason why I haven't been posting on the
>lessons (the other big reason being the finite number of hours in the day),
>just reading along and trying to keep myself from getting too
>rusty. Another project of mine to keep the rust away is the creation of an
>online and search-indexed relational database with all the Old Icelandic
>vocabulary I can find, fully conjugated - it's still in the early
>construction, though, and not even ready for helpful suggestions - I'll
>give updates and URLs when it's a little further along.

Eysteinn has already done something like that with Rudolf Meissner's
system of kennings. The URL is on Haukur's web page. The comment says
"very high quality".

Another project that might be worth while, is one where you punch in
any ON word. The program then tells you whether it is in the Edda or
not. But then it also immediately quotes all places in the Edda
where the word occurs; with good literal English translations
next to it. A kind of electronic Edda concordance. (you can also start
from an English word - that would be ideal)

>
>The point being, your course and this list still have value for students
>such as Keth and myself (while I recognise some of Keth's mistakes, I also
>recognise I would be making similar ones if making equivalent
>attempts). But as long as he and I recognise that 1) the course is
>designed for a different audience, and 2) we're not the teachers, or even
>assistants - then I still think that there's a ton of value for us in this
>course by "auditing" it (in the sense of attending a class without
>participating as a student).

Yes, I agree with that. List owners are always entitled to set up
the kind of list rules that optimize the value of the course
and of the list. And if the rules aren't too complex, I am sure
people will do their best to follow them. I was however under the
impression that all topics that deal with ON words/grammar and syntax
were on topic.

But now I understand Oskar is using a different model. (crew versus
passenger)

> >Keth; you should be posting it somewhere else. Don't feel that I'm
> >really criticizing your material.

I hope Oskar won't refuse me if I post on topic though.

>of course you're criticising his material! that's the most helpful thing
>you can do for any of us ;-> I think what you mean is that you're not
>disparaging his material, which would just be cruel and pointless...
>
> >I'm just saying that it would be
> >much better appreciated somewhere else. And if that somewhere else
> >doesn't exist, then I encourage you to make it! You could make a group
> >of your own, an "ON discussion" group. It would probably be useful to
> >Scandinavian and German students of ON, perhaps even to some students
> >here. I would be honored to take a look every now and then and comment
> >on your ponderings :)

I dunno, Oskar. Maybe there were lots of people out there who already
appreciated my efforts. I too answered the poll. But if only a minoriy
actually chooses to vote, the polls don't tell you very much about
the 90% who didn't vote.

>well, I can think of one forum which would be appreciative... ;->
>
>One of the lists I administrate (and co-moderate) is NordStudie, a "formal
>email list for the discussion of Nordic topics such as the language,
>literature, culture, magick and religion of Scandinavia and related
>societies during the pre-Christian and transition-period times, from the
>perception and for the illumination of scholarly heathens."
>
>Quite simply, any of Keth's posts on the Old Norse language would be
>completely on-topic - but unfortunately, I would probably be his most
>qualified feedback on Old Norse, unless you, Haukur and/or Eysteinn also
>subscribed - so it still may not fulfill the specific needs of Keth's
>language study, as a forum is only as good as its members and how active
>they are.
>
>okay, enough shameless plugging of one of my lists, and back to our
>regularly scheduled linguistics ;->

Yes. Right now I am looking at a piece of phonetic script that has
been used to transcribe a piece of Icelandic prose. I should like
to copy it and send it to the list. Then we could have a discussion
that we might all benefit from. But right now I am a bit unsure
whether it would be on topic. ? I would however be at a loss to
know what other list to send it to. Oskar is THE expert on ON/Icelandic
phonetics, who has made his knowledge available on the net. And
for that he deserves great applause!

Best regards
Keth