From: realnarodnjak
Message: 71636
Date: 2013-12-01
Slavic */š/, */ž/ descended phonemes are [+apical][-dental] in most
modern Slavic languages, which makes Slavs perceive Dutch and Castillan
/s/ as /š/, but this isn't true for all West Germanic nor West Romance
languages.
---In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:Continental West Germanic (as well as Western Romance) alveolar [s̺]
and [z̺] are perceived as Slavonic laminal postalveolar-velar
labialized [ʃ̻_ˠʷ] and [ʒ̻_ˠʷ] almost as many times as dental [s̪] and
[z̪]
2013/11/29, Iris Neva <iris_neva@...>:
> Does anyone know whether the Dutch spoken in the 18th century pronounced the
> "s" in front of the consonants 'p' or 't' like "sh"?
>
> German does this today -> spazieren, Spagetti, Stern, steigen, Steuer... are
> all pronounced with an initial "sh".
>
> I am wondering about this, because Russian in some cases transformed the
> initial "s" of Dutch loanwords into "sh": stuurman-> штюрман (modern russian
> штyрман) sloep-> шлюпка Or would it have been 17th century Russian that did
> this sound transformation?
>
> Does anyone know whether the Dutch spoken in the 18th century pronounced the
> "s" in front of the consonants 'p' or 't' like "sh"?
>
> German does this today -> spazieren, Spagetti, Stern, steigen, Steuer... are
> all pronounced with an initial "sh".
>
> I am wondering about this, because Russian in some cases transformed the
> initial "s" of Dutch loanwords into "sh": stuurman-> штюрман (modern russian
> штyрман) sloep-> шлюпка Or would it have been 17th century Russian that did
> this sound transformation?
>