From: dgkilday57
Message: 71530
Date: 2013-11-09
---In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, <grzegorj2000@...> wrote:Germanic *th yielded d in German. So, we would expect *dausent "1000" (cf. Eng. thousand, Old Saxon thu^sundig etc. (+ attestation of t- in Balto-Slavic). Dutch duizend is regular, as well as OHG du^sunt is.If the MHD and modern German forms with t- are borrowings, from what dialect/language?And if their development was regular, are there more German words with t- on the place of Germanic th-?Kluge only states "Lautlich zu erwarten wäre nhd. d-" - this is just statement, no way explanation. If d- was expected like Kluge says, why t-?
[DGK:]
Another example is _Traube_, MHG _tru:be_ against OHG _dru:bo_, OS _thru:bo_, Du. _druif_ 'grape' (with the same semantic development 'bunch of grapes' > 'grape' as in Fr. _raisin_ and Eng. _grape_ itself).
Both _Tausend_ and _Traube_ are explicitly stated to be of Upper German origin by K.G. Goblirsch, "Notker's Law and Consonant Strength", North-West European Language Evolution 31/32:135-43, 1997:
"Modern [Upper German] dialects also show a great confusion in the development of Gmc. /b/, /d/, /g/. In many areas, secondary strengthening to /p/, /t/, /k/ is reported. Compare the following examples: _kukkN_ 'gucken', _pitt@... 'bitter', _platt_ 'Blatt', _klass_ 'Glass', _pi@... 'Bier', _pa:n_ 'Bahn', _ko,:fn_ 'gaffen'. OHG /d/ is also reportedly strengthened to /t/ as in the following examples from the Zürcher Oberland: _ti,kx_ 'dick', _tun@_ 'Donner', but _do:rff_ 'Dorf', _diNN_ 'Ding' ([A.] Weber [, Die Mundart des Zürcher Oberlandes, Btr. zur schwd. Gr. 10, Frauenfeld] 1923). The examples are diverse, varying not only from dialect to dialect, but also from word to word. Some, like _Traube_ and _Tausend_, entered the standard in their 'strengthened' forms. Across-the-board strengthening of the OHG /b/, /d/, /g/ is also reported in a few isolated areas, that is, Burgenland in Middle Bavarian and in (former) Middle and North Bavarian dialects bordering on the Czech-speaking area. In view of such findings, it seems there would be no functional opposition of strength in initial position in Upper German, were it not for unaffricated [kh-] and aspiration in borrowings transmitted through the literary standard."
We still need to know why these two particular UG words with /t/-anlaut displaced the inherited ones with /d/-anlaut from MHG. To me the most plausible explanation is the expansion of commercialism northward from Florence in the later Middle Ages. Without commerce, one seldom has use for numbers as big as a thousand unless a war is going on, and most of us are at peace most of the time. Commerce also brings trade in wine, so that suitable grape-growing zones furnish product for export, not merely local use. I suspect that these South (Upper) German words for 'thousand' and 'bunch of grapes' were thus transmitted northward into central MHG dialects along with the wine trade, ousting the inherited words.
What I find really interesting about the Traubengruppe is that Kluge connects OHG _dru:bo_ usw. with the 'troop' group, which requires Gmc. *-bb-, UG -pp-: LG _drubbel_, SwG _truppele_, Bav. _trauppen_. These cannot be separated from ML _troppus_ in the Lex Alamannorum, obviously of UG origin. The connection, proposed by Johannson (KZ 36:366), was dismissed by Meyer-Lübke (REW 8938) as phonetically impossible. However, there is still no satisfactory explanation for Gmc. geminated mediae not arising from /j/-gemination (unless one is hornswoggled by Martinet's expressive-gemination hogwash or similar pseudoscience). This connection, Gmc. *þru:b- ~ *þrubb-, if not a mere mirage, could provide a clue.