Re: Hindu noise-makers, Elst and OIT -- a review

From: Lalit Mishra
Message: 71440
Date: 2013-10-20

Dear F Brighenty,
 
Austroasiatic etymologies are not applicable for Muna language, no use citing Austroasiatic etymology, since, these two languages, are in fact, dialects not the languages and as I revealed over here, the methodology used in the research as well as scope frozen for the research is incorrect for the reason that research has not taken the whole eco-system into account, I w'd say the methodology used was very primitive, immature.
 
Looking up a word into Monnier Williams Dictionary doesn't make you a knower of Sanskrit, I see, you are  copying all the meanings from Monnier Williams and that's not a right approch, You should take a linguistic's approach rather than just looking up meanings in a dictionary, the explanations made below may help you grasp the idea  -
 
1. Dog
Pls note that the complete word is शुनाशेप or शुनःशेप  that means "Tailed Dog" , In munda languages, somehow,  शुनः/शुना (shuna) is not that popular, With using word similar to शेप they understand and refer to "Dog", they also use other words like "Kukur" for Dog thats also taken from Sanskrit.
Hope you know that Sarama is called Deva Shuni, Any further confusions, pls read John Hopkins article accessible through the link given below :
 
http://www.jstor.org/stable/288140
 
2. Head/Forehead
 
You dont understand Munda, therefore, you are not supposed to know that {baha, boho, etc} mean the forhead or Bhaal, The project team has done a litltle mistake in their table, in fact, in regular talks boho/baha is used to denote identity also, not merely in the sense of "head", Well, it's suprising that you don't uderstand linguistic implications and kind of transformation happens when words/root of words are taken into a different language than the source language, How you expect exact transalation ?
 
3. Lola
 
You are admitting that Lola means tongue, I provided an explanation that it's due to tenderness, you have no idea that a derivative of Lola the "Lolar" means love one feels for tender age children, Try to contemplate on the inputs and explanations provided, also, no use adding "Later Vedic Period" in the given context,  that doesn't make a difference, remember, I said that Munda has taken words from Pre Classical  and Classical Sanskrit.
 
4. Sarsapa
 
That's indeed mustard as you are admitting and since, mustard ( sarason) is yellow in color, Munda people started using it for the color "Yellow". Don't you really know linguistic implications and kind of transformation happens when words/root of words are taken into a different language than the source language, How you expect exact transalation ?
 
5. Drava
You are adimitting that Drava is water, however adding "Later Vedic Period" to it, that doesn't make a difference since Munda has taken words from Pre Classical  and Classical Sanskrit and we are aware of changes happend in use , Also note another vedic term, rather an easy term for you to uderstand - "Draps".
 
English
Santali
Bhumij
Ho
Sora
Remo
Gtaʔ (Didey)
Sanskrit
Comments
Dog
Shepa
 
Eye
mɔʔ
 
No direct equivalent
Head
Bhaal
 
Tongue
leʔaŋ
Lola
No direct equivalen in Sanskrit, Lola is Hindi word used for Tounge due to it's tenderness
Water
ɖaʔ
Drav
 
Yellow
saŋsaŋbaj
Sarshapa/Sarason
Color like mustard, Classical Sanskrit
 
 
From: "frabrig@..." <frabrig@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2013 2:47 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Re: [tied] RE: Hindu noise-makers, Elst and OIT -- a review
  
Re: Lalit Mishra’s post at
 You, Lalit, have picked up some sets of Munda cognates at
 and compared them with some vaguely similar-sounding Sanskrit words to try to show that Munda langages derive from Sanskrit -- no less!
 However, the Sanskrit meanings you have added are all wrong:
 1) s’epa- means ‘penis, tail’ in Vedic, and not at all “dog” as claimed by you;
 2) bhāla- (a very late Sanskrit word, first attested in Kavya poetry) means ‘forehead’, not “head” as claimed by you;
 3) lola- (attested in the Mahabharata but not in Vedic) means ‘hanging’, not “tenderness” as claimed by you; only in New Indo-Aryan some of its derivatives mean ‘tongue’;
 4) drava- means ‘running, flowing’ in Vedic; only its Middle Indo-Aryan derivatives (dava etc.) start to mean ‘water’;
 5) sars.apa- just means ‘mustard seed’ in Vedic, and none of its derivatives in Indo-Aryan denotes a mustard-like color as claimed by you.
 The sets of Munda cognates you have randomly chosen for your “indigenist” comparison have their own Austroasiatic etymologies which have nothing to do with Sanskrit.
 Regards,
Francesco