Re: Hindu noise-makers, Elst and OIT -- a review

From: frabrig
Message: 71435
Date: 2013-10-19

 

 

Re: Lalit Mishra’s post at

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/cybalist/conversations/messages/71431

 

You, Lalit, have picked up some sets of Munda cognates at

 

http://www.livingtongues.org/hotspots/hotspot.GSA.moremunda.html

 

and compared them with some vaguely similar-sounding Sanskrit words to try to show that Munda langages derive from Sanskrit -- no less!

 

However, the Sanskrit meanings you have added are all wrong:

 

1) s’epa- means ‘penis, tail’ in Vedic, and not at all “dog” as claimed by you;

 

2) bhāla- (a very late Sanskrit word, first attested in Kavya poetry) means ‘forehead’, not “head” as claimed by you;

 

3) lola- (attested in the Mahabharata but not in Vedic) means ‘hanging’, not “tenderness” as claimed by you; only in New Indo-Aryan some of its derivatives mean ‘tongue’;

 

4) drava- means ‘running, flowing’ in Vedic; only its Middle Indo-Aryan derivatives (dava etc.) start to mean ‘water’;

 

5) sars.apa- just means ‘mustard seed’ in Vedic, and none of its derivatives in Indo-Aryan denotes a mustard-like color as claimed by you.

 

The sets of Munda cognates you have randomly chosen for your “indigenist” comparison have their own Austroasiatic etymologies which have nothing to do with Sanskrit.

 

Regards,

Francesco



---In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, <cybalist@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 
Dear Mr Menon,
 
Oregon based Living Tongues Institute for endangered languages conducted a project on Munda languages, Project team published a table of few Munda words, a sample. As usual, project team studies Munda words in isolation like students try to learn how to translate into a different language, They didn't investigate the origin of munda words in Sanskrit since project doesnt talk about Sanskrit, In the table below, I am prviding Sanskrit source of those few Munda words, some words have got direct origin in Sanskrit whereas some are taken from Hindi, the language spoken in surrounding Munda region. The methodolgy used in all such projects is ineffecient and error prone, since it doesn't study eco-system of a language and it's speakers, and as a result of such inefficent methodologies, Munda has become a language of Dravid family, Indian Linguistics have been obviously excelled in following outcome of such projects and pulishing their researches built on top of such errorneous outcomes.
 
 
 
English
Santali
Bhumij
Ho
Sora
Remo
Gtaʔ (Didey)
Sanskrit
Comments
Dog
Shepa
 
Eye
mɔʔ
 
No direct equivalent
Head
Bhaal
 
Tongue
leʔaŋ
Lola
No direct equivalen in Sanskrit, Lola is Hindi word used for Tounge due to it's tenderness
Water
ɖaʔ
Drav
 
Yellow
saŋsaŋbaj
Sarshapa/Sarason
Color like mustard, Classical Sanskrit

From: Lalit Mishra <litsol@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "litsol@..." <litsol@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [tied] RE: Hindu noise-makers, Elst and OIT -- a review
 
Mr Menon,
 
There is a pattern asto how Sanskrit created dialects in a geographical area over the period, lets take timedepth as vertical parameter and geography as horizontal parameter, In india, recently, such dialects are given shape of language by producing grammar by the speakers of such dialects.
 
For Munda and Oraon, as I understood, the nouns and the roots are majorly taken from the pre-classical Sanskrit with a change in the way for forming adverbs and adjectives, however, there is pattern that can be decoded if a team comprising Sanskrit, Bengali, Orriya, Hindi and Chhatisgarhi experts helped by historians work together, With understanding the underlying pattern, Indian scholars may develop an indegenous tool to study historicity available in such dialects.
 
It&apos;s heartening that you are taking onus of conducting further research on Munda and Oraon.
 
Some fighter communities who sided with Kauravas in Mahabharata has been pused to deep forest areas in Eastern/Western India in a later date, they are not tribes in the sense, we find tribes in Africa.
 
Regards,
Lalit Mishra
 
From: Rajan Menon <vajradanta5@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [tied] RE: Hindu noise-makers, Elst and OIT -- a review
 
Dear Lalit,

You have a right to post your doubts and I did follow up on research. I understand your doubts and the reason for them and I thank you. 
The Oraons, until recently, used the Devanagari script for their language / dialects. However, their language/ dialects pertains to the Elamo Dravidian family group.
See Omniglot for the new script devised by Dr.Oraon.  (www.omniglot.com/writing/tolongsiki.htm)‎

Thanks for bringing up this issue. I posted my study so that list members could comment. Let´s pursue scholarly topics in a scholarly manner and post our comments accordingly. 

BR

Rajan Menon
 
.