Re: Italo-Celtic dialect base words?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" wrote:

> In my opinion the /kk/-forms (including Epidaurian _ikkos_ 'horse' and Mycenaean _i-qo_ [(h)ikkWos]) are borrowed from Balkan Illyrian, while _hippos_ is a more recent borrowing from Macedonian. In the Illyro-Lusitanian group we have *-k(^)W- > *-kkW-, and specifically *h1ek^Wo- > *(h)ikkWo-, hence Lus. _Iccona_ = Gaul. _Epona_ 'goddess associated with horses'.

It would be pretty odd if every Greek word w kYw was borrowed. What about *kYwàx+ > pa:ma = possessions Boe, ta ppa[:]mata = possessions (epig.)? Did Greek borrow a word w a geminate when it wouldn't have had any word-initial (since no kYw > CC? in your mind)?

>

Paeonian _Lukpeio_ (gen. sg. on coins, -o = class. Grk. graphy -ou) shows the intermediate stage between *-kkW- and *-pp- in the P-type of these languages; the base is of course Ill.-Lus. *lukkWo- 'wolf'.

>

What is *lukkWo- from (if it's an intermediate stage, did kW > kw first)? Assuming real Lukpeio (not *Lukueio , etc.) was read correctly, it would just be more ev. that 'wolf' is from the same ety. as lopa:çá-s = jackal S; ro:pa:s MP; lòw = fox Kh; aló:pe:x G; etc. Many assumed such in the past, and a complex C-cluster (with kW(p)-kY or sim.) and met. could explain aspects of both.

> > a simple original kW wouldn't seem to explain -kk- here, making a cluster necessary. It would also keep kWr from being the original (my -ir- < -imYxY- , etc.), though that might not matter for you depending on when opt. -i- > 0 in Gmc.
>
> Getting ahead of myself (to be covered under 'finger'), I no longer consider OE _feolufer_ to exhibit Gmc. labialization, because the reflex of *k^w (effectively a labiovelar in the centum group) would not have been occluded here,
>

But you wrote kW not kY first. How does your *pelekWu- arise (analogy in paradigm (so not -ows, -ewes, etc.?), and what about kW/kY for paRak = rib/side Ar; ?

>

just as it is not in 'finger'. Instead, I consider it a pre-Grimm's Law loan from Gaulish, with *pelekWu- regularly undergoing Italo-Celtic assimilation to *kWelekWu-, then labialization to P-Celtic *pelepu- (with the *-ro-derivative following suit). Thus _feolufer_ is no longer relevant to the topic at hand.

>

That won't work. In:

Hercynia silva (trans L) Celt; perynja = oak forest R;

we see kWu > ku before assimilation.


Since I believe Gmc u/i could > 0 in mid., it doesn't matter to me (I don't even need it occluded at a specific point; that's not part of my rules).


I say axe > beak > bird, but you could go w feolufer << :

palumbe:s \ -is = woodpigeon L;

from color:

pallidus = pale L; poliós = grey G; pa:n.d.ú- = white (yellow) S;