--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" wrote:
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> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" wrote:
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> > [Greek kantharos 'beetle'] akin to Skt gandha- "smell", in a sense
> > of stinky insect?
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> According to a number of philologists the Greek word kantharos has multiple meanings, among which are 'dung-beetle (Scarabaeus pilularius)', 'the Egyptian scarab beetle', and 'a sort of drinking-cup with two vertical handles and a deep, footed bowl'.Any direct connection between the 'beetle' and 'wine cup' meanings seems unlikely. However, both meanings of kantharos might be related to kantho:n and kanthe:lios, 'pack-ass'. The common factor linking kantharos as 'wine cup' with kantho:n 'ass' might be the typical high handles of the cup (called "ears" in Greek), similar to the ass's large ears. Likewise, between the dung-beetle (kantharos) and the ass (kantho:n) some sort of link runs, most probably mediated by the beetle's connection with dung (cf. also kanthis 'ass-dung'). In Aristophanes, Trygaeus, who rises to heaven on the back of a huge dung-beetle, addresses his mount as kantho:n ('ass'), and not as kantharos. According to an ancient Greek
belief, beetles were produced from the bodies of asses. The error presumably arose from the beetle's alleged habit of laying eggs in asses' dung.
***R More likely because, like jackasses, they are pack animals, in that they roll balls of dung all over the place. An association with jackass dung would be a nice secondary association, however
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> In the ultimate analysis, we are left with the Greek word kantho:n, itself of non-IE origin and, therefore, without an etymon.
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The closest word for any such borrowing appears to be:
kathwa:- = she-ass Av;
***R Do any speakers of English ever say she-ass and he-ass? i've never heard it said. I've only seen it written in arcane articles by foreigners. Most people say male and female and I've heard colloquial jack and jenny/ginny.
but I don't think the G words are from borrowing. Instead, they're rel. to:
kanthós = corner of the eye G; >> canthus = tire of a wheel L; canto = corner/side It; canto = edge/border/side Sp;
***R this is related to Celtic /kam-/ "round, bend, exchange, etc." the source of cambiar, llanta, maybe canto, ins't it?
by a range of meaning similar to:
hyrna = point of an axe-head, hyrning = corner ON;
Then, * kantho- = point of a spear / spear / horn of an animal / horned animal (sim. to:
camox = chamois L; kemás = young deer, kámax (f/m) = shaft/pole G;
) allowed a deriv. like:
çr´Nga- = horn S; * krággo-, kraggó:n = crab G;
or
* kerafró- > keraós = horned, kárabos = horned beetle / crayfish G;
If others are directly rel., it would be something like:
kemás = young deer, * kanth(ad)ó- \ etc. = young deer > young ungulate > young / immat. / gelded / infert. ungulate , etc.
Good, but there is a list out there on the web of *k-r words for crabs scorpions, turtles that includes a ton of language families. I'm sure Brian and Piotr will remember it