Re: On Greek thalassa 'sea'

Let's put into a hierarchy our various attempts: I think a derivation
from a hypothetical substrate is, although always possible,
intrinsically less probable (just less) than an etymology through an
otherwise unattested Macedonian sound law (anyway internal /kh/ <
*/gˆH/ would be at variance with kebalā; as for */gH/ < */gˆ H2/, Old
Indic has mahi vs Greek méga, so the situation is still worse...),
which in turn is by definition less probable than a regular Greek
etymology from a PIE prototype (although an otherwise unattested one)

2013/1/27, Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>:

> Let me sugest an alternative: how if thalassa < *seh2l- "salt", through some
> Pre-Greek IE substratum or adstratum, when *s- > *T-> th-. Thalassa would be
> something like *s(e)h2l-nk(^)-h2- "The Salty One".
>
> JS Lopes
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
> Para: "cybalist@yahoogroups.com" <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Enviadas: Domingo, 27 de Janeiro de 2013 15:16
> Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: On Greek thalassa 'sea'
>
>
>
> Good point, but what's known about Macedonian? I think it's a very few
> attested and known language. g^h2 = g^H in Sanskrit and perhaps
> Indo-Iranian,  why not in Macedonian?
>
>
>
> JS Lopes
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Enviadas: Domingo, 27 de Janeiro de 2013 13:10
> Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: On Greek thalassa 'sea'
>
>
>
> I would find it difficult to understand: 1) why */gH/ from */gˆH2/
> (despite Pinault's Law */H/ > 0 before */y/) when mégas shows always
> /g/? 2) Why Macedonian /kh/ while */dH/ > /d/?
>
> 2013/1/27, Joao S. Lopes josimo70@...>:
>> Could second part of  *dHal-MgHya- < *meg^H2-  "big"? Was Thalassa
>> applied
>> to the Mediterranean, in opposition to Pontos (Black Sea, or maybe
>> originally the Bosphoros) and Okeanos (World-envolving River, later
>> applied
>> to the Atlantic.
>>
>> JS Lopes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
>> Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
>> Enviadas: Sábado, 26 de Janeiro de 2013 22:43
>> Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: On Greek thalassa 'sea'
>>
>>
>>
>> It should be *dʰlh₂nk⁽’⁾ih₂ > thálassa vs. *dʰlh₂enk⁽’⁾h₂-eh₂ > dalagkhā
>>
>> 2013/1/26, stlatos sean@...>:
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear List,
>>>>
>>>> A friend of mine (Prof. Victor Mair) has asked a large private mailing
>>>> lis
>>>> about the etymology of Gk. thalassa 'sea'. I attach below my reply to
>>>> him
>>>> with the hope someone here will be able to provide some fresh insights.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Victor Mair wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > I'm also going to be commenting on the origin of Greek
>>>> > thalassa ("sea"). Do you have any ideas about that (some
>>>> > lost Mediterranean word)? If thal(a)- is the root, what
>>>> > sort of ending would -(a)ssa be?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Victor,
>>>>
>>>> The root traditionally posited as the base for Greek thalassa (if it is
>>>> IE, which is not very likely) is *dhal- 'to spring, sprout', not
>>>> **thal(a)-.
>>>>
>>>> M. Nyman (“A Pre-marine Vestige of θάλασσα,†Arctos 14
>>>> [1980]:
>>>> 51-78) derives θάλασσα, with convoluted and devious arguments
>>>> involving the “Erechtheid Sea†(θάλασσα ÎˆÏ ÎµÏ‡Î¸Î·Î¯Ï‚, a
>>>> sacred Mycenaean spring-well located on the Athenian Acropolis), from
>>>> the
>>>> IE root *dhal- which, according to him, would be semantically
>>>> associated
>>>> with the feature “moisture†or “liquid†. From this IE root
>>>> would
>>>> derive both Greek θάλ-λω ‘to SPRING, gush forth’ > ‘to
>>>> bloom,
>>>> grow’ and θάλ-ασσα ‘SPRING’ > ‘sea’.
>>>>
>>>> The attested forms of Greek thalassa ‘sea’ are:
>>>>
>>>> Ionic θάλασσα (thalassa)
>>>>
>>>> Attic θάλαττα (thalatta)
>>>>
>>>> Doric σάλασσα (dalassa)
>>>>
>>>> Hesychius (5th century CE) includes the following gloss, which has been
>>>> classified as Macedonian (but which could even be a fake one!):
>>>>
>>>> δαλάγχαν = θάλασσαν (dalankhan, with prenasalization),
>>>> that is, dalankha = thalassa
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd say it's related to words for 'deep, down, cave, vault, etc.', so:
>>>
>>> thálassa = sea G; dalágkhan (a) Mac;
>>>
>>> directly with:
>>>
>>> thálamos = inner room, thaláme: = cave/den, ophthalmós = *socket > eye
>>> G;
>>>
>>> and further:
>>>
>>> dals = valley Go; thólos = vaulted room G; dolU = pit OCS;
>>>
>>> etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Notice how the accent in thálassa G; dalágkhan (a) Mac; varies
>>> directly
>>> with thálamos = inner room, thaláme: G; which, if Mac is like other G
>>> dia.,
>>> means the fem. for 'sea' ended in -ix+ ( > ya ) or -ax+ ( > a: \ e: ),
>>> and
>>> the long V caused the accent to move in both such forms (dalágkhan &
>>> thaláme: ). Ending in -ya not -a: is also why the alt. pal. vs plain is
>>> in
>>> G vs Mac.
>>>
>>>
>>> In my theories, an earlier alt. in PG * dHeL-x-m-XYo+ \ dHeL-x-m-qYHo+
>>> created, with dif. endings added, both thálassa & thálamos , etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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