From: stlatos
Message: 70789
Date: 2013-01-25
>If not from an opt. German treatment of mft I'd say it's m>w>u as in puxða- Av; opp. to pen~ktas Lith (showing e- vs 0-grade; like fúst OHG; fýst OE; opp. to *peNstI Slav; for 'fist', also << 5).
> More corrections. I must stop quoting words from memory, which is wrong 4 out of 5 times. The Germanic derivatives of '5' containing a velar are collected in a footnote on p. 512 of Kauffmann's paper "Zur Geschichte des germanischen Consonantismus" (PBB 12:504-47, 1887). Kauffmann himself vouches for _fauchzk_ '50' in the grand duchy of Saxony, and cites Swabian _fuchze:_ '15', _fuchzk_ '50' from Birlinger (Alem. Spr. rechts des Rheins p. 178; Augsb. Wb. p. 149) and Weinhold (Bair. Gr. sec. 184); also Middle Dutch _vichtiene_ '15', _vichte_ '5th' (inflected weak) against _vijftich_ '50' and _vijfte_ '5th' from Franck (Mnl. Gr. sec. 109).
>
> Kauffmann also gives (presumably from his native Swabian dialect) _fuft_ 'fifth', _fufze:_ '15', _fufzk_ '50'. The short vowel shows that the nasal cannot have been lost in historical Swabian. The stem _fuf-_ must continue an ancient nasalless form.
>
> The soundlaw which I am assuming assimilated an occluded labiovelar in articulation to a preceding labial. This must have operated before the soundlaw which converted Proto-Gmc. *-Vnx- to *-V:x-, or there would be no nasal preserved in any form of Gmc. '5', no matter what analogical processes occurred later. I have not determined whether the labializing soundlaw occurred before or after Grimm's Law. If it occurred after, something like this would be expected:All here looks like it's from opt. changes, like wülpe MHG; ylgja ON; or qairþra = (name of q) Go; pairþra = (name of p (pi)) Go; in which no (supposed) unattested analogy from dif. env. is possible. Your reg. rule would prevent feolufor, and works against the direction of your other reg. rule.
>
> PIE *penkWe '5', *pn.kWto- '5th'
> Early PGmc *finxWe, *funxWta-
> Later ... *finx(W), *funfta-
> Later ... *fi:x, *funfta-
>
> Analogical processes probably began operating before this last stage was reached. Contamination of *finx with *funfta- very likely produced *finf, *finfta-, the most widespread protoforms. Some High German dialects (including the literary standard) retain -nf, while others have assimilated the cluster to -mf, as has Gothic, and Old Norse further to -mm. But an alternative contamination *funx would later produce *fu:x, preserved in Swab. _fuchze:_, _fuchzk_, and a further contamination of *fu:x with *funfta- could yield *fu:fta-, whence Swab. _fuft_ and the new analogical creations _fufze:_, _fufzk_. Finally, *fi:x does seem to be represented in MD _vichtiene_ and, by analogy "against the grain", in _vichte_.
>