From: Tavi
Message: 70683
Date: 2013-01-11
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister wrote:
>
> Tavi is correct regarding {ll} (or sometimes {l})
>
Not exactly. See below.
> /c, c^, etc./ in certain Ibero-Romance languages. So you get stuff
like tsobu for "lobo" in Asturian.
>
Actually, this is llobu in most of Asturian, because initial l- is
fortified and thus becomes palatized (BTW, Catalan does the same, so
we've got llop there). But in Pyrenaic (which includes Gascon and part
of Aragonese), only -ll- is fortis, not l-. In Asturian, this consonant
is either a voiceless palatized post-alveolar (i.e. alveolo-palatal)
/tc^/ or an apico-alveolar sibilant affricate /ts´/, the latter also
found in Aragonese, which also has /tS/ and /s´/. In Gascon, we find
/c/ (or perhaps /t^/?), /tS/ or /t/ at word final (fortis) and /r/
intervocally (lenis).
Interestingly, the asibilated rhotic /j^/ of Regional Spanish in the
clusters {tr} /tc^/, {dr} /dj^/ is quite similar to the one of English
{tr, dr} as described by Gimson (An introduction to the pronunciation of
English). So I guess this could have something to with an alveolar
articulation of /t, d/ as in English instead of dental as in standard
Spanish, also called "TNT-Spanish" from the initials of Tomás
Navarro Tomás (Manual de pronunciación española).
Considering also the areas with the assibilated rhotic were formerly
Basque-speaking, it's most unlikely that Paleo-Basque would have
borrowed a regional variant of Spanish potro as potto ~ potx(o) as
proposed by stlatos (sorry for misquoting your alias).
> Look at Portuguese, where Latin {Cl, ll} went to /s^/, in Galician, as
I remember, it's /c^/.
>
Only /kl/, but not /ll/, which regularly gives /l/. I'm afraid you're
mixing both.