Re: fortis , f- >>

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
> But even if Oscan retained *sr-, Etruscan allows that as well, with
> <sren> 'image' vel sim., <srenchva> 'set of images' vel sim.
>
> > That's also right, although in the case of Etruscan, this and other
> > groups arose from vocal syncope.
>
> What evidence do you have for vocal syncope in such words?
>

Etruscan spur(a) 'city' can be found as Latin Suburra as an early
loanword, but later derivatives gave spurius 'bastard', spurcus 'dirty'.
This word has cognates in Semitic *sVbVr 'to fence off', *sib-
'fortification, oustskirts of a city' and Central Chadic *tSibVH- 'to
enclose, to fence, to hide (?)', possibly related to Afrasian *s^ap?-
'fence' (s^ is a voiceless lateral affricate):
Semitic *s^abs^ab- 'small room near the main house; roofed anteroom;
extension of roof; shielding, tempory hut (?)'
Central Chadic *z^ab?\- 'fence, to fence'
Saho-Afar *sabsab- 'wall'

> > My guess is that Latin Ro:ma is a
> > borrowing from *Ru:ma in an o-less language like Etruscan (although
> > Italoid had no /o/, according to Villar).
>
> And what other examples do you have of native Etruscan -u:- being

borrowed into Latin as -o:-? (Some scholars have denied that Etruscan
had long vowels, but I consider them incorrect.)

>

I'm following Villar's argument that in a language with a 4-vowel system
such as Etruscan, /u/ would be actually a lower [U], which would be
prone to be interpreted as /o/ in 5-vowel language such as Latin.

> Finally, Rome is not a river,
>
> > But it's on a river whose name is from Etruscan, BTW.
>
> I agree that Tiberis is from archaic Etruscan *Thi-hwar-

'Water-Bearer' vel sim. (i.e. generic 'River', like Welsh Aber-).

>

Not really. As I said before, Etruscan thivhari, thepri-, thefri- is
cognate (if not an early loanword) to Hurrian tem-ari 'irrigation ditch,
channel', a word related to NEC *ta:mh\i 'vein; pipe, kennel' and Turkic
*da:mor 'vein, artery; root'. Also from this etymology is Minoan *dabur
'corridor', which I reconstruct from Greek labyrínthos.
Interestingly, the symbol of the labyrinth is older than the Greek myth
of the Minotaur (where is depicted in a rectangular shape) and can be
found in several European cultures in a circular shape.

> but a city at a ford on a river.
>
> > Unfortunately, your etymology doesn't point to 'ford' bur rather to
> > 'plain' or 'countryside'. IMHO, a native Latin etymology of Rome is
> > extremely unlikely.
>
> What is extremely unlikely is that scholars will ever agree on the

etymology.

>

Well, historical linguistics isn't like mathematics, so it allows a
large room (or perhaps should I say Rome?) for speculation.