Re: Basque onddo

Why so much quibbling over this. It's pretty obvious that Latin <s> was perceived by Basques as laminal, while Spanish <s> was perceived as apical. Spanish is not Latin and there were hundreds of years of difference between the two. In any case, most Romance borrowings into Basque were not from Spanish, but from Gascon and Aragonese. Both apical and laminal <s>, of course exist in Spanish, but as regional traits. Apical <s> exists even in Latin America in parts of Colombia and Central America. Even Nixon and James Bond used apical <s>.

From: dgkilday57 <dgkilday57@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2012 8:19 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Basque onddo

--- In mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <sean@...> wrote:
>
> --- In mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <sean@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At 9:01:00 PM on Tuesday, October 30, 2012, stlatos wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > --- In mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott"
> > > > > <bm.brian@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >> At 4:01:13 PM on Tuesday, October 30, 2012, stlatos wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>> Where did Asena:rius come from, if not brd < Bq?
> > > >
> > > > >> Cognomen from <asinus>.
> > > >
> > > > > Then why Aznar?
> > > >
> > > > Presumably because the Latin (or Romance) sibilant sounded
> > > > more like the Basque laminal sibilant than like the Basque
> > > > apical sibilant.
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > It's ce not se > z(e) in Sp. Aznar only makes sense if from Bq * asYenari with Asenarius a Latinization of it (otherwise > X Aznario).
> > >
> > Note however Basque <zentzu> 'sense' (Latin <sensus>, acc. -um), <zerbitzatu> 'to serve' (*servitia:re, acc. supine -a:tum), <zela> 'saddle' (<sella> 'seat', acc. -am), <gauza> 'thing' (<causa> 'matter, affair'), <anzer> 'goose' (<anser>), <zagitatu> 'to set in motion' (*sagitta:re 'to loose an arrow', not from <sollicita:re> 'to bother' as some suppose), Souletin <zeku"ru"> 'lifestyle' (<saeculum> 'lifetime; century'), and the numerous words with Bq. -zt- from Lat. -st-.
> >
> I'm questioning supposed Latin s > Sp z , not > Basque. The point I'm making is that it should be, from ALL evidence, a Basque word to begin with.
>
The Vasco-Spanish surname Elizondo transparently means 'vicinity of a church' and <el(e)iza> 'church' comes from Latin <eccle:sia>, so I do not see how your argument holds any water. Basque -z- resulting from Latin/Romance -s- certainly can be retained as -z- in Spanish.

DGK