Re: Witzel and Sautsutras (was: Mapping the Origins and Expansion of

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Brian M. Scott" <bm.brian@...> wrote:

>
> At 3:00:03 PM on Thursday, October 25, 2012, shivkhokra wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister
> > <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
>
> > [..]
>
> >> Among items that I offered, Shiv doesn't tell why
> >> retroflexed consonant sets do not show up in IE languages
> >> that are not from the subcontinent.
>
> > For the same reason:
>
> > a) That British after living in India for many years did
> > not pick up retroflex consonants. See the hindi spelling
> > of Pune where the n is retroflex and contrast it with how
> > british wrote it.
>
> Not comparable: the British were a superficial layer of
> Indian society that maintained continuous close ties with
> England.
>

British were invaders and so were Aryans according to your school. If Aryans, when they invaded, had no problem in "learning"/"acquiring" retroflexes why would the British?

Furthermore you are suggesting Aryan invaders of India kept a place holder for the retroflexes in their abecedarie. And by "an amazing coincidence" the retroflexes fit perfectly after velars,palatals and before dental, labials.

Do you know how ridiculous your AIT school's thesis is?

> > b) That people in south east asia (thailand/burma/cambodia
> > etc) who were taught religious texts both in Sanskrit and
> > Pali did not pick up retroflex consonants.
>
> Not comparable: they weren't living amongst large numbers of
> native speakers of languages with retroflex consonants.

No. Have you heard of Cholas? Do you know if they ruled over Cambodia? Let me just say you are plain uninformed. South east Asia was full of Sanskrit and Pali speakers who went their as teachers and rulers. Amazing number of Sanskrit inscriptions have been unearthed in these countries. Since some of these countries were not molested by Islam the Indic art in these countries is very well preserved. Case in point Angkor Wat.

>
> > c) And most importantly the Gypsies who migrated out of
> > India lost their retroflex consonants once they got to
> > Europe.
>
> Because they moved into regions occupied by speakers of
> languages that did not have retroflex consonants. This is
> precisely the same reason that the Indo-Aryans acquired
> retroflex consonants.
>

You need to get a good book on Indian linguistics. Gypsy alphabet lost *all* retroflexes. This implies people who moved out of India could easily loose their retroflexes because these were tough sounds to utter.

Further more as point b) makes it clear it is very difficult to make a population learn retroflexes.

And most importantly you cannot acquire retroflexes when you come conquering either as Aryans or as Britishers.

> > d) Lastly do retroflex stops in Swedish and Norwegian
> > count?
>
> For what? They're retroflex stops. They have nothing to do
> with Rick's question, however.
>

Sorry you need a book on linquitics now.

Regards,
Shivraj