Re: What color is the Rother?

You're stumping me, Dude. Scots and N. English are very well attested and that's where *rother "red" would most likely come from, e.g. SE Scots topo Rutherford --although some claim that it's from Flemish immigrants who settled there. Evidently there is a very similar topo in Flanders, at least according to the genealogists who studied my g-g-gmother's family

From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] What color is the Rother?

What's more probable - the survival in Celtic of a good PIE formation or postulating a non attested language?

2012/10/10 dgkilday57 <dgkilday57@...>

The river Rother of Derbyshire (Roder, -ir, -yr, -ur 13th cent., Rudde 1330, Rodelle 1330, Rother 1577) is explained by Ekwall (English River-Names 348) as 'chief river', British *dubro- 'water' with intensive *ro- from *pro-. Cameron (Place-Names of Derbyshire 15) agrees with this analysis but suggests 'great river' as a better translation.

I have never been there, but maps suggest that the Rother is not a particularly great river, nor the chief river of Derbyshire. Also, the contraction of the name required is rather violent, since Dubris is still Dover. I wonder whether the meaning of Rother is rather 'red', a rhotic extension of zero-grade *h1rudH- as in Greek and Latin (or with an intervening laryngeal in Sanskrit).

I cannot find such a Celtic formation in Matasovic', but this name need not be Celtic. In disagreeing with Ekwall on the Wye, Jackson considered a Celtic etymology unlikely and pointed out that there were people in Britain before the Celts.

But if the Rother is green, it will embarrass my explanation.

DGK