Re: Origin of Sanskrit

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:

> Yes, I mean that the Proto-Indo-Aryan dialectal Continuum (in
> fact, different dialects of PIE descent and with shared specific
> Common Indo-Aryan structural and lexical innovations, spread through
> normal wave dynamics) covered a huge area and that secondary
> Proto-Languages (= Proto-Languages entailing an area out af a larger
> dialectal continuum) are by no means to be thought as small-size.
> The highest amount of population of Central and Western Eurasia at
> the end of Chalcolithic was equal to no more than a couple of
> modern European *districts*.

See Mallory, _In Search of the Indo-Europeans_, pp. 63-65 and 144ff. ('Defining the Homeland'). He writes that evidence shows that a major Bronze Age language covered 250,000 – 500,000 square kilometres, based on the historical disposition of Near Eastern languages:

"When we estimate the territory of each of these language families they approximate an area roughly equivalent to that of Germany or Poland or Japan."

For Iron Age Europe, Mallory writes, "the size of individual linguistic territories would fall, on average, between 500,00 - 750,000 square kilometres." He also cites Sydney Lamb's figures for North American languages at 4,000 BCE, which according to him (Mallory) would suggest an average size of 160,000 square kilometres at best. He concludes:

"Consequently, we may postulate the size of the PIE homeland falling within the range of about 250,000 - 1,000,000 square kilometres... A similar area is also suggested for the homelands of many other language families."

In my view, the same geographical constraints also apply to secondary and tertiary proto-languages as Proto-Indo-Iranian (and, in a subsequent phase, to its sub-branches Proto-Indo-Aryan, Proto-Iranian, and Proto-Nuristani). And, in conclusion, this is not the same size of territory you claim to have been covered by your "Proto-Indo-Aryan Dialectal Continuum" (which, let me recall, according to you would have extend from the steppe/taiga belt interface zone in southwestern Siberia (Arkaim-Sintashta) to the savannahs of the Indus Valley in South Asia and the peaks of the Hindu Kush and Karakorum. A little too much for one proto-language!?

Indo-Aryan must have had a relatively confined 'homeland', defined as corresponding to a particular ecological or otherwise geographically-defined region.

According to Gamqrelidze & Ivanov (_Indo-European and the Indo-Europeans_, vol. 1, p. CIV), the original range of any common source linguistic system must lie in a particular 'homeland' area, more *compact* than the range of the daughter languages/dialects:

"The size of the territory and the gradual dissolution of the community both depend on the culture, the geography, and the ecological conditions of the tribes that spoke the common language. Thus identifying the original range of a reconstructed language and identifying the migratory routes of the tribes speaking its dialects are the historical and geographic side of the specifically linguistic problem of dissolution of linguistic unity."

Postulating an Indo-Aryan dialectal unity going from Siberia to the Indus at any given point in time goes against these linguistic principles.

Best,
Francesco

> This hypothesis holds true for every secondary Proto-Language
> (Proto-Indo-Aryan is therefore by no means an exception). The real
> Proto-Language is PIE, just like Roman Latin for Romance Languages;
> PIE could (*could*!) very well start from a strip of lands between the
> NEar East and North-West India and from there expand as PIE to the
> whole of Centrale and Western Eurasia (just like Roman Latin to the
> whole of Southern Europe); secondary Proto-Languages like
> Proto-Western Romance never covered a small area and secondary IE
> Proto-Languages like Proto-Indo-Iranian or Proto-Celtic represent a
> similar phase
>
> 2012/10/10, Francesco Brighenti <frabrig@...>:
> >
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
> > <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@> wrote:
> >
> >> I notice everyone takes as granted that the Indo-Aryans *expanded*,
> >> wherever from; the logical possibility that they co-evolved in situ,
> >> starting as PIE dialects (in the whole region between the Steppes
> >> and India) is scarcely - and never operatively - taken into account
> >> (although this could reconcile any kind of positive evidence)
> >
> > Do you mean the Proto-Indo-Aryan language was spoken in an area encompassing
> > NW South Asia, Afghanistan, and the whole of southern Central Asia? I'm
> > asking you this question because this is the logical consequence of a denial
> > of any IA expansions. If IA co-evolved in situ in the whole region between
> > the Steppes and India, the language from which all of them derived must have
> > been covered the same huge region.
> >
> > Yet, I was taught proto-languages usually cover far smaller geographic areas
> > -- let's say, the size of a small European nation. Why should
> > Proto-Indo-Aryan be an exception?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Francesco
> >
> >
> >
>