2012/8/8, Ton Sales <
ton.sales@...>:
> I've been examining in detail what I told you Coromines had to say about
> gladius, and I now see I was completely misled. When he says the word
> may come directly from a Sorothaptic *klauiios he's not speaking of
> Celtic kladios (> Lat. gladius > Cat. gladi) but of a postulated origin
> *glavius for French glaive. This is after he notes that in Catalan
> there's gladi/glasi and also glavi, and in Occitan there are both
> glaziand glavi, but that in French there is only glaive. He assumes the
> first is the Gallicism gladius (from Celtic kladios, he says) while the
> second is --plausibly-- the (independent) Sorothaptic word that he
> relates to the Baltic names for the sword he mentions. He sees, or
> seeks, no other point in common for the two words. That leaves out the
> question you're interested in: when does exactly the k- in Celtic
> kladios becomes the g- in the Latin Celticism gladius. Coromines doesn't
> comment about that, but then it is also clear that another k > g shift
> demands explanation: the one in Sorothaptic *klauiios to the Latin
> *glavius.
>
> One riddle wrapped in another, as Churchill would say. Regards from
> Barcelona.
>
> Ton
>
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Thank You very much indeed!
So, while OProv. glai is the regular outcome of Latin gladius and
OProv. gladi can (!) be explained as learned form, OProv. glazi would
continue *gladiyo-; on the other hand, Gallo-Romance types like French
glaive (Cambr. Ps. 36,14 gladive), MFrench glage, and OProv. glaujol
reflect *gladibo-, *glabjo- or*glawjo- respectively, in any case
considerably different formations, surely not from gladius. For this
reasons I assume it’s safer to operate with at least two different
Gaulish words, *gladibo-s and *glawjo-s, maybe also *glabjo-s and
gladiyo-s, just as we have at least four Insular Celtic lexical types,
*kladibo-s for OIr. and maybe Welsh, *kladi:-mo-s for Breton and maybe
Mod. Ir., *kladi:-byo-s for Breton, *kladiyo-s for MW, possibly also
*kladimo-s for Welsh and Irish, *kladiyomo-s as well for Irish,
*kladiyobos for OIr.:
OIr. claideb, MIr. claidhiomh, claidium, Mod. Ir. claidheamh
[kʰlaijə̃v] (cf. also the phrase claidheamh mór ‘great sword’ > Engl.
claymore)
MW cledyf, cleddeu, cledd, plural cledyfeu (clefydeu), cleddyddeu,
cleddyddav, Mod. Welsh cleddyf, cleddau, pl. cleddyfau, older
cleddyfawr
Corn. cledhe, clethe, pl. clethythyow, clythythow
MBret. clezef(f), clezeu, clezeuf, Mod. Br. kleze, klezeñv, Vannes
kleañ, pl. kleañnier
Mod. Ir., Mod. Br. klezeñv and Vannetais show nasalization, therefore
*kladimo-s or *kladiyomo-s are the best reconstruction, while
*kladibos or *kladiyobos is better for OIr.
MW pl. cleddyddeu and cleddyddav are the best piece of evidence for
*kladiyo-s; cleddyf clearly continues *kladibo-s or *kladimo-s.
Bret. /e/ < */a/ wouldn’t have taken place before resisting short /i/,
therefore the palatal vowel in the middle of the word must procede
from long */i:/, therefore *kladi:-byo-s (cf. *-byo- in Gallo-Latin
uidubium = MIr. fidbha ‘bill-hook’) and *kladi:-mo-s for klezeñv,
Vannes kleañ.