From: Tavi
Message: 69893
Date: 2012-07-13
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski gpiotr@ wrote:This is in accordance with Villar's model, where Neolithic farmers from Anatolia spoke paleo-IE dialects à la Renfrew. Together with Afrasian, they will constitute a branch of Eurasiatic which expanded with agriculture à la Bomhard, although the real "Nostratic" is much more reduced than the one proposed by Nostraticists.
>
> > But the word 'earth' would
> > descend from the languge(s) spoken by the Neolithic farmers, so it
> > would be related to the Afrasian word.
>
> > Non sequitur, if there ever was one.
>
> > IMHO these Germanic-Afrasian (especially Semitic) isoglosses must
> > reflect the languages spoken in Central Europe Neolithic.
>
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:
>
> anyway Villar is closer to me than to you, and the three of us are
> equally far from Alinei
>
> > Not really, because Villar's model consist of a very early "paleo-IE"
> > which fragmented into several paleo-dialects detectable in the ancient
> > topoponymy and hydronymy. Only much later the historical IE languages
> > emerged, arising from the "explosive" (in Villar's own words) expansion
> > of the Steppes dialect in the Chalcolithic-Bronze Age, replacing other
> > linguistic varieties which acted as substrates.
>
> OK, this is a pertinent discussion. In my opinion, if you leave a
> wide place for VC in European prehistory and both Villar and I don't,
> Villar is closer to me than to you, because such a difference is
> greater than preconstructing Palaeo-IE with /o/ or with /a/, with /b d
> g/ of /bh dh gh/.
>
As you can see, I've now changed my mind. Linguistic evidence points to VC speakers being agro-pastoralists rather than farmers, and so their influence was more significant in the Mediterranean area.
> I agree (against Alinei) that Kurgan peoples probably spoke PIE; with Renfrew, I think that PIE was spoken
> also before them, for instance from Anatolian agriculturalists; against Renfrew, I think that PIE was spoken
> also before the rise of agriculture and not only in Anatolia or the Steppes.
>
Not "PIE" (which properly speaking didn't exist) but different *paleo-IE* (i.e. Eurasiatic) varieties.
Quite interestingly, Kurgan people were nomadic farmers and their language(s) had VC loanwords such as the word for 'horse' and the verbal augment. For more information, you can read this old article (in Russian) by Starostin.