Re: pottus, Genua, Durantia (was: Bart; was: Ligurian)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...> wrote:

>
> ________________________________
> From: dgkilday57 <dgkilday57@...>
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 8:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] pottus, Genua, Durantia (was: Bart; was: Ligurian)
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
> > <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 7) a different - because chronological rather than genealogical -
> > > controversy about the relative precedence of Celtic and hypothetical
> > > other (IE) languages in Cisalpine Gaul, S and C France and E Spain,
> > > whereas I maintain local Celtic has everywhere evolved in situ from
> > > PIE, while DGK seems to put Celtic always as latest phase in whatever
> > > area (therefore leaving no place even for restricted Proto-Celtic
> > > Urheimat)
>
> Not within Italy or Gaul proper. I think we should regard Asturia and surroundings as the Celtic Urheimat, where we actually find OEH river-names in Celtic form.
>
> ***R Definitely an interesting idea. It fits into the Gaelic myth of Mil Espainne. And if you saw P-Celtic as a branch that moved "backwards" into Gaul etc. But Celtic still would have originally come from farther east.

Paleo-Celtic would indeed have come from farther east, and back-washes of population are nothing new. I am looking for the area where Proto-Celtic acquired its distinctive features, which to me is the Urheimat. I meant to say "Asturias" and vicinity, essentially NW Iberia, as the Celtic homeland in this working hypothesis.

The place-name Berganza (Prov. Lugo, Prov. A'lava), with the steep coastal region Bergantin~os (Prov. La Corun~a), corresponds to the Norwegian river-name Bergunda, continuing *bHe'rg^H-n.t-ih2 'protecting, elevated, difficult' vel sim. River- and place-names of the form *Brigantia (Bregenz, Brienz, Brent, Braint) in my opinion are based on the root *wreigH- 'to turn, twist, wriggle' (cf. Gallo-Latin <brigantes> 'parasitic worms', Marc. Burd.), not *bHerg^H-.

This hypothesis does not require modifying the usual view that the "Iron Age II" La Te`ne culture was Celtic. However, the "Iron Age I" Hallstatt culture of the Austrian salt-mines can hardly be Celtic if the Celts originated in Iberia. The reason for considering Hallstatt Celtic is that Hallstattoid artefacts are found in Ireland, which is generally considered the parade-example of Celticity. I suggest instead that Hallstatt was Venetic, along with the artefacts. If Torsten already proposed this, please excuse my redundancy.

DGK