Re: pottus, Genua, Durantia (was: Bart; was: Ligurian)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

>
> > 7) a different - because chronological rather than genealogical -
> > controversy about the relative precedence of Celtic and hypothetical
> > other (IE) languages in Cisalpine Gaul, S and C France and E Spain,
> > whereas I maintain local Celtic has everywhere evolved in situ from
> > PIE, while DGK seems to put Celtic always as latest phase in whatever
> > area (therefore leaving no place even for restricted Proto-Celtic
> > Urheimat)
>
> Not within Italy or Gaul proper. I think we should regard Asturia
>

The toponym is actually *Asturias* in plural, like e.g. The Netherlands.

> and surroundings as the Celtic Urheimat, where we actually find OEH river-names in Celtic form.
>

Evidence?

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" oalexandre@ wrote:
> >
> > That's right. As far as we know, Celts had *stratified* societies,
> > leaded by warfare aristocracies who had conquered non-Celtic people.
> > This means their ethnogenesis involved language replacement, thus
> > invalidating your continuity proposition.
> >
> > However, the question of the Proto-Celtic homeland is entirely
> > different, and some lexical isoglosses shared with Greek and/or
> > Indo-Iranian (from the Steppe paleo-dialect) point to an Eastern
> > location:
> >
> > *gdon- 'earth, place' ~ Greek khthón 'earth'
> > *gdonjo- 'human, person'
> > *ja:s 'chariot' ~ Sanskrit yá:ti 'rides'
> > *jekka: 'cure, salvation' ~ Greek ákos 'cure, medicine'
> > *jo- 'which (relative pronoun' ~ Sanskrit ya-, Greek hós
> > *jorko- 'roebuck' ~ Greek zórks 'gazelle, roedeer'
>
> You can find isoglosses between Albanian and Tocharian.
>

I'm afraid that's quite irrelevant. What matters is that Celtic retained more Steppe lexicon that, say, Italic or Germanic. This would imply a higher degree of "Kurganization" than those languages, although certainly less than Greek or Indo-Iranian.

> The Celtic Urheimat, strictly speaking, is where the phonetic and other changes characterizing Proto-Celtic actually took place. Among other things, this includes lenition of */p/ to */f/ (Matasovic')
>

This fricative would be more likely a voiceless bilabial /p\/ (IPA "phi").

> I think this took place in the Iberian peninsula, and the area very likely included Asturia.
>

So I must presume you can demonstrate those OEH river names you mentioned before underwent the same phonetic development, can't you? Relative chronology is extremely important, you know.