--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@...> wrote:
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
> <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@> wrote:
> >
> > 7) a different - because chronological rather than genealogical -
> > controversy about the relative precedence of Celtic and hypothetical
> > other (IE) languages in Cisalpine Gaul, S and C France and E Spain,
> > whereas I maintain local Celtic has everywhere evolved in situ from
> > PIE, while DGK seems to put Celtic always as latest phase in whatever
> > area (therefore leaving no place even for restricted Proto-Celtic
> > Urheimat)
Not within Italy or Gaul proper. I think we should regard Asturia and surroundings as the Celtic Urheimat, where we actually find OEH river-names in Celtic form.
***R Definitely an interesting idea. It fits into the Gaelic myth of Mil Espainne. And if you saw P-Celtic as a branch that moved "backwards" into Gaul etc. But Celtic still would have originally come from farther east.
> That's right. As far as we know, Celts had *stratified* societies,
> leaded by warfare aristocracies who had conquered non-Celtic people.
> This means their ethnogenesis involved language replacement, thus
> invalidating your continuity proposition.
>
> However, the question of the Proto-Celtic homeland is entirely
> different, and some lexical isoglosses shared with Greek and/or
> Indo-Iranian (from the Steppe paleo-dialect) point to an Eastern
> location:
>
> *gdon- 'earth, place' ~ Greek khthón 'earth'
> *gdonjo- 'human, person'
> *ja:s 'chariot' ~ Sanskrit yá:ti 'rides'
> *jekka: 'cure, salvation' ~ Greek ákos 'cure, medicine'
> *jo- 'which (relative pronoun' ~ Sanskrit ya-, Greek hós
> *jorko- 'roebuck' ~ Greek zórks 'gazelle, roedeer'
You can find isoglosses between Albanian and Tocharian. The Celtic Urheimat, strictly speaking, is where the phonetic and other changes characterizing Proto-Celtic actually took place. Among other things, this includes lenition of */p/ to */f/ (Matasovic') and probably further to */h/. I think this took place in the Iberian peninsula, and the area very likely included Asturia.
Bh. includes Ligurians as /p/-retaining "Porco-Celts", so his homeland is spread all over the place. To each his own.
DGK