Re: Origin of *h2arh3-trom 'plough'

From: Tavi <oalexandre@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2012 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Origin of *h2arh3-trom 'plough'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
wrote:

>
> Then you pretty much solved "plow" --it's from IE *bhelg- "a thick

plank, a beam" which is exactly what

> wooden and metal-tipped wooden plows look like in Central America and

other places that I've seen in

> pictures. *bhlugo- > Celtic or NWB/Venetic/Rhaetic *blug- > Germanic

*plux- "plug or block, plug or block

> shaped thing (such as a plow" which makes a whole hell of a lot sense

more than "land rudder"

>
> > As I said before, this etymology would explain plug but not plough.

In case you haven't noticed, vowel

> > quantity is different in both words.
>
> Keep in mind that they came into English from different paths. Plow,

archaic and dialect plough, is native,

> while plug seems to have come from Dutch or Plattsdeutsch. They may

have even come via different

> substrates -i.e. NWB vs. Romance. So one vowel doesn't necessarily

sink this ship.

>

I disagree. Not only vocalism is different but semantics as well.

The semantics fit perfectly --they match those of French soc. A plow is plug-shaped.

> Also keep in mind that English /aw/ and /uw/ are allophonic among

different dialects and between English

> and Scots.
>

I'm afraid that's quite irrelevant for this matter. It makes a big difference if one word came via Rhaetic and the other via Germanic

On-line Ety has this. It seems that both are loanwords in English.

plow (n.)

O.E. plog, ploh "plow, plowland (a measure of land)," possibly from Scandinavian (cf. O.N. plogr "plow"), from P.Gmc. *plogo- (cf. O.Fris. ploch, M.L.G.ploch, M.Du. ploech, O.H.G. pfluog). O.C.S. plugu, Lith. plugas "plow" are Germanic loan-words, as is probably L. plovus, plovum "plow," a word said by Pliny to be of Rhaetian origin. Replaced O.E. sulh, cognate with L. sulcus "furrow." As a name for the star pattern also known as the Big Dipper orCharles's Wain, it is attested by early 15c., perhaps early 14c. The three "handle" stars (in the Dipper configuration) generally are the team of oxen pulling the plow, though sometimes they are the handle.