From: dgkilday57
Message: 69638
Date: 2012-05-18
>Yes, that is a very good description of Vennemann.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@>
> wrote:
> >
> > It's a long shot, but *bart- could be related to the German toponymic
> > element *part-, which is found in Vennemann's work. I believe it
> supposed to
> > mean "swamp" (vel sim) but see Venemann
> >
> Since you mentioned Venemann, this is attested in dialectal Basque parta
> (LN) 'marsh, swamp'. As you might know, his favourite pastime is picking
> IE items with some resemblance to a Basque word (no matter it's
> dialectal and scarcely attested) and then present them as loanword from
> a "Vasconic" substratum.
> If this is a genuine Ligurian/NWB word, I'd link to the root *balt-Those are from a different root. Etr. *palt(h)na, implied by Lucch. <paltenna>, is probably based on Lig. *balta: borrowed into Etr., but none of these would interchange /l/ with /r/ in this position.
> found in Tuscan (Lucchese) paltenna 'puddle' (an Etruscan loanword) as
> well as Albanian baltë 'mud, swamp, clay soil' and Slavic
> *bólto- 'swamp'.
> > Add to that Spanish barro "mud", regional bardo.I agree that Aragonese should not be called "regional Spanish", but it is not as bad as M&A citing all unmarked Hesychian glosses as "dialectal Greek".
> >
> The form bardo is actually Aragonese (an endangered Romance language),
> not Spanish.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:What about <barranca>? I forget whether any conclusion was reached when this came up before.
> >
> > Tavi already scoffed at my attempt to argue that mud forms a barrier,
> so I doubt that I will revisit that notion.
> >
> In many cases, the meaning 'mud' is secondary from 'puddle, swamp' (see
> above) or 'sediment' (e.g. Spanish légamo 'mud, slime' from a Celtic
> reflex of IE *leg- 'to lie'). Primary references to 'clay' include a
> widespread root found in Kartvelian *diq- 'clay, earth' (> IE *deig^-
> 'clay'), Afrasian *da'kW- 'clay', Yeniseian *t@... 'clay, mud',
> Burushaski *tod 'mud', Basque lohi 'mud, dirty'.