Re: Vasco-Caucasian and the comparatine method [was: Stacking up on

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

>
> > As documented by linguists such as Coromines, there's ample toponymy
> > evidence of Basque-like dialects being spoken in the Pyrenees at least
> > until c. 1000 AD before being replaced by Romance.
>
> So what? Borrowings went both ways.
>

But Romance words exclusive of this area and with NO plausible Latin etymology has to be borrowed.

> We have post-Class. Lat. vinctio:n-, VLat. *vinctiare (with attested
> reflexes), and a regional cluster of Ibero-Romance forms that may
> reflect a related noun. It adds up to a much stronger case than either
> of your (or rather Starostin's) NC etyma.
>

Sorry, but your pretended "etymology" is highly *unconvincing*.

> > An irregular correspondence usually indicates borrowing on either side.
>
> An irregular correspondence *usually* means a false etymology. And if we
> are dealing with a wanderwort in the Caucasus area, it can't be used for
> the reconstruction of Vasco-Caucasian.
>

You forget the Basque word. VC also includes Basque, you know.

> The wide semantic latitude ('membrane' : 'steal, conceal') is the
> > nail in the coffin for this etymology.
>
> > Should I remind you of Sanskrit *s´áras* 'cream, film on boiled milk' <
> > IE **k´el-* 'to cover, to conceal'?
>
> The fact that we have Old Irish súil 'eye', cognate to the IE 'sun'
> word, does not give you a licence for equating 'sun' with 'eye'
> everywhere. If you list all the meanings relatable to 'steal' or
> 'conceal', the list will be very long ('bury, veil, lid, crime, thief,
> loot, secret' etc., etc., etc.). If you base your etymologies on
> meanings "related" in this way, you are sure to find an accidental match
> somewhere. Accepting a loose semantic match *before* you build a
> convincing etymology is bad methodology.
>

Semantic drift is very common over extended periods of time.

> > AFAIK, this root corresponds to IE **(s)pondh-* 'wooden vessel', so if
> > it exists in IE, then it must exist at all.
>
> Even assuming that something like *spondHo- 'wooden bucket' is
> reconstructible, I see no reason to connect it forcefully with Chechen
> battam 'brass jug'.
>

I remind you Basque ontzi also means 'ship' (i.e. a big wooden vessel).