Re: Arabic-Celtic connection (was [tied] 'fnd' (mountain) ====>

Given that Celtic originated on the north side of the Alps and Arabic originated in Arabia, I don't see anyway one could have influenced the other in any meaningful way.

Celtic was, of course, spoken in Spain but died out nearly a thousand years before the Arabs reached Morocco and Spain. Until the Islamic expansion, Arabic was spoken in a relatively small area.

From: "caerwynjllewellyn@..." <caerwynjllewellyn@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Arabic-Celtic connection (was [tied] 'fnd' (mountain) ====> *bend was Re: Basque mendi 'mountain'

All,

I know this has been mentioned before, but the connection between Arabic and Celtic has been made previously, and I would love to know of sources that specifically discuss this topic, if any.

New to the study of IE and PIE with a specific interest in Celtic and Germanic. Every little bit helps.

Regards,

William Apple

Sent from my U.S. Cellular BlackBerry® smartphone

From: "The Egyptian Chronicles" <the_egyptian_chronicles@...>

Sender: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:50:18 -0500

To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Cc: Tavi<oalexandre@...>; Torsten<tgpedersen@...>

Subject: [tied] 'fnd' (mountain) ====> *bend was Re: Basque mendi 'mountain'

Octavia Alexander wrote: Matasovic reconstructs PCeltic *bando-, because of Brythonic forms with /a/. But this can't a PIE word, so *bend- is actually a pseudo-PIE root..This looks like a substrate loanword, probably Vasco-Caucasian (Celtic has quite a bunch of them). .....there's plenty of substrate toponymy items *pant-/*pand-/*pent-/*penn- which point to a non-IE source. The original meaning could have been 'rock, crag' (e.g. Spanish peña < *penna) and also 'ravine' (e.g. South Italian pentuma), then 'mountain'.

This looks like a substrate loanword, probably Vasco-Caucasian (Celtic has quite a bunch of them). <snort> 'Vasco-Caucasian' isn't even one of the more plausible macro-families. IMHO both Basque and Celtic would derive from a common source.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ishinan: Actually, there is a definite validation to your consideration of *bend being a substrate loanword. To be precise, I strongly suggest that you consider the Arabic 'fnd' (great mountain) as the most likely source rather than others.

FND (1) فند

Following are some of the definitions from Arabic sources; mainly Lisan al-`Arab and Qamuws al-Muhiyt:

http://www.theegyptianchronicles.com/LINKS/MOUNTAIN.html

A great mountain, a mountain apart from others, a portion of a mountain, or a great portion thereof, having tallness or length, some suggest slenderness at the top (pointed), or a head, slender head (point) or a peak, or a great peak or head of a mountain, a side or outward part (slope, Fr. pente).

Al-Findu is also the name of a well known mountain situated between Mecca and Medina in Arabia.

The various usage of these terms dates from the Classical Arabic i.e. before the 7th c. It should be pointed out that Arabs did not set foot in Spain until 711 CE when they crossed the straight of Gibraltar.