Re: Manching, D2 - D1

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> The transition from LaTène C to D1 is generally agreed to have
> taken place in 120/116 or 120/105 BCE.
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/68398
> 'As the transition from Middle to Late LaTène researchers
> unanimously determined approximately one and the same
> chronological interval - 120/116 or 120/105 BCE.
> Dendrochronological research on logs of the Tille Bridge
> (Switzerland), where all the accompanying finds belong to LaTène
> D, showed that these logs could have been cut somewhere between
> 120-116 BCE [Hachmann 1961, p. 258; Polenz 1971, p; Haffner 1979,
> pp. 405-409].'
>
> It seems to me that that fact rather shows that the transition to
> LaTène D must have taken place *before* 120-116 BCE, but okay.
>
>
> The transition from LaTène D1 to D2 is generally agreed to have
> taken place at the destruction of the
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppidum_of_Manching
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/68323
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67564
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/65300
>
> Manching might have belonged to the Boii
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60404
>
> Earlier Manching was believed to have been destroyed by the Romans
> when they conquered the area in 15 BCE. Today most people suggest
> it was destroyed by someone like Ariovistus some time before 58 BCE.
>
> But could it have been destroyed by the
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri ?
> It would seem strange for them to have bypassed this important
> oppidum in 113 BCE.
>

Aha:
http://www2.rgzm.de/transformation/Deutschland/EntstehungProvinz/Provinz_Raetien_engl.htm
'The oppidum culture perished in the first half of the 1st century BC, as can be shown at what seems to have been the most important example: Manching. Here, amphora finds provide important evidence for long distance trade, but stop no later than c. 70/80 BC. The oppidum's role as a central place was thus probably abandonment by c. 50 BC, at the latest. In the ensuing period, the "südostbayerische Gruppe" can be attested north of the Alps: distinguished by its burials, whose pottery displays connections with Central Germany and Bohemia.'

The question is whether the Nauheim fibulae were used in the declining period after 70/80 BCE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppidum_of_Manching#Fortifications
'The second wall was erected around 104 BC as a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfostenschlitzmauer
(cf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelheim )
incorporating the old wall within its body. The Pfostenschlitzmauer technique was also used for a third phase. Before excavation, part of the walls were still visible as a 4 m high earth rampart. Manching appears to be the only known case where murus gallicus (a mostly western Celtic phenomenon) and Pfostenschlitzwall (common further east) occur in a single site.'

The latter could be explained if a conquest by a people from the east succeeded in 104 BCE (Cimbri?) and the conquerors continued to operate the oppidum as emporium. Nauheim fibulae might then belong to the period and ethnos before 104 BCE.


Torsten