From: dgkilday57
Message: 68387
Date: 2012-01-21
>Shame on me for forgetting about Bartholomae's Law!
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "The Egyptian Chronicles"
> > <the_egyptian_chronicles@> wrote:
> >
> > > PREAMBLE: IE. reconstructions are usually the result of
> > > etymological analysis and research into later attested words.
> > > But these words are based exclusively on IE data while ignoring
> > > the full range of the isogloss when it extends into non-related
> > > languages...
> > >
> > > The following PIE * bhendh- and its various pertinent IE data are
> > > examples which illustrates the problem...
> > >
> > > [in Egyptian] I found the following: bnt: 'to bind, to tie, to
> > > swaddle with bands, bandages, binding spells, and to copulate!
> >
> > Is this triliteral attested in Egyptian before the 18th dynasty?
>
> No, it isn't (see below).
>
> > If not, can you rule out a possible borrowing from Mitannian?
>
> Maybe. See below.
>
> > For PIE *bHn.dH-to- 'bound' one might expect a Proto-Indo-Iranian
> > *bHn.tto-.
>
> The Vedic -ta participle is baddha (euphonic < *badh-ta), and the Avestan passive past participle is basta (< *badh-ta) 'bound'.
> In different publications of his, Gábor Takács, author of the Etymological Dictionary of Ancient Egyptian, states that Eg. bnd (= bnt) 'to enfold, wrap up, tie, gird oneself' is a word of "disputable" origin and of "uncertain" etymology. This verb is attested in Late Egyptian only (the Ramesside period), once in the variant bdn. Takács who, consequently, rejects all of the Afroasiatic etymologies proposed for this word to date -- further writes that Eg. bnd is not cognate to Hebrew 'abnet (with aleph prosthetic), a term designating a girdle or waistband or bandage usually worn by priests, and concludes that the Hebrew word may just be a loan from Eg. bnd as has been proposed by a host of linguists and philologists.At present, that looks like the best bet. If a Mitannian prince ruled Palestine, it is certainly conceivable that the Mitannian term for a type of bandage was borrowed along with the item itself, and found its way into Egypt.
>
> As the name of a garment, Eg. bnd/bnt possibly designated a kind of sash tied around the waist to confine the garment underneath. For the bnd/bnt-cloth (a kind of bandage), see at
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7jn6ucj
>
> and at
>
> http://www.jacobusvandijk.nl/docs/Fs_Hospers.pdf (pp. 35-36 in the pdf)
>
> Now comes the most interesting part. In the first half of the 19th century, Wilhelm Gesenius had derived Heb. 'abnet from New Persian band '(v.) to bind; (n.) band, connection, link, belt, girdle (etc.)', and had correctly connected etymologically the Persian term to Sanskrit bandha and German Band. He had also noted that the use of the Hebrew word, which is attested in the Pentateuch (Genesis and Exodus), predates the earliest contacts between Hebrews and Persians, with this implying an old borrowing from some other Indo-European source. Yet this etymology was later rejected by the scholars, who preferred to identify Heb. 'abnet as an Egyptian loanword (see above). Yet, as we have seen, even Eg. bnd is without a clear etymology (within Egyptian itself, not to speak of an Afroasiatic etymology).
>
> What then? S^ubandu (<s^u-ba-an-du>), name of a prince of Palestine attested in the Amarna letters (14th century BCE), is considered a Mitanni Indo-Aryan name identical to the adjective subandhu 'of good family, having good relatives', which is already attested in the R.gveda. From this descends that an IA word like bandhu ('relative, relation, close connection') might have been used by the then Mitanni rulers of Palestine. We cannot say whether the underlying IA root, bandh- 'to bind, fasten' and its derivative bandha 'bond, fetter' were likewise in use in that period and location due to Mitanni linguistic influence. If they were, and if one posits that Late Egyptian bnd 'bandage' was borrowed by some foreign language, could Mitanni IA have been the source of this putative loan?
> (However, there seem to be to many "ifs" here in my pseudo-argument!)No. As you have shown, Maspero is a dead end on this matter, and no convincing evidence is provided by Bomhard or Dolgopolsky.
>
> In any event, I would not think for a moment that Eg. bnd could be a "Nostratic" cognate of PIE *bhendh-.