From: stlatos
Message: 68347
Date: 2012-01-03
>Not always (prope, etc.). Celtic probably had kWu > ku before p-kW > kW-kW.
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Trond Engen <trond@> wrote:
> >
> > I should probably read what's been written at lengths before, but I'm lazy.
> >
> > <Hercynia> is seen as a latinization of a Celtic word corresponding to
> > Gmc. *fergun- "mountain". Today it struck me that if Lith. <Perkunas>
> > "god of heaven and thunder", ON <Fjörgyn> "mother of Thor" is the same
> > word, that would give us an independent example of the IE dualism
> > "stone/hammer" ~ "sky" that we glean from the "hammer" word.
>
> I have no doubt that all the above reflect *perkW-, but <Hercynia> cannot reflect an inherited Celtic word, since both Celtic and Italic assimilate *p...kW... to *kW...kW... (hence Latin <quercus>).
> > [The reason I came to think of this was Bjorvand & Lindeman's entry forThere's a much simpler expl.:
> > <furu> "pine tree". It's easily derived from IE *perkW-, but,
> > paraphrasing, the semantic shift is almost unsurmountable unless we take
> > the common origin to be a mere descriptive "mountain tree" as in OE
> > <ferg'enbea:m>. My reason for looking was actually the word <bark>
> > "barch", thinking it might be something like a back-formation from
> > compounds with *perkW-, providing another possible semantic bridge. But
> > "mountain" is better.]
>
> Hubschmid, in regard to the Jura Mountains and related appellatives, discussed the connection between 'oak-forest' and 'forested mountain' ('Berg', 'Bergwald', usw.), and this is probably another example. That is, if the primary sense of *perkWu- is 'oak', we can easily get to 'oak-forest' and 'forested mountain' in derivatives, then back to 'pine-forest' and 'pine' in appropriate areas. Oaks are supposedly immune to lightning (also laurels, eagles, and seals, if you believe the ancients), so the transfer of *perkWu- to the epithet of the thunder-god, which could easily become his name, is straightforward. In the Norse case, the connection with hammering may have arisen independently. With a great deal of smith-work going on in their economy, thunder could easily be portrayed as divine hammering.
>