Re: Kossack's Conclusions

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> > "Therefore already early the idea occurred to me that the
> > indistinctly appearing Germanic organizaton by Hundertschaften
> > [groups of hundred] might have to do with the deployment of
> > cavalry units. I was strengthened in this belief by 'centeni ex
> > singulis pagis sunt, idque ipsum inter suos vocantur' (Germ. chap.
> > 6), although Tacitus does not speak here of the men of the cavalry
> > themselves, but of the men of the infantry assigned to them. But
> > behind that must be a fact that every pagus should supply a
> > squadron of 100 cavalry with the settled number of accompanying
> > infantry, which was then called a Hundertschaft. After all there
> > is so much else pointing to a high age of the Germanic
> > Hundertschaften and war is after all the father of all things. It
> > seems to me in particular the names of the Eastern Netherlands
> > region names Twi:-hanti und *Þri:-hanti (Twente and Drente)
> > deserve to be recognized as important. They would be closely
> > related to the Swedish Ti-(h)unda-land (ten hundred land), but
> > with a development from PIE *km.tom "hundred" which presupposes
> > the non-Germanic intermediate stage *kant-, equal to the Celtic
> > *kantom, but with the late Germanic shift from anlaut k- to h-."
> >
> > Other possible cognates:
> > Germanic *xanso:- "community of people" (in whichever sense)
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/24979
> > BTW Finnish kansa "people" is cognate to the Estonian suffix -ga
> > of the recent comitative ("with") case, cf. ON hos prep. "at,
> > chez". Perhaps also NWBlock Dutch kant, German Kante "edge"
> > (Celtic *kant- Engl. Kent), if the derivation is not from the
> > number hundred, but from the cavalry protecting the flanks of the
> > infantry (cf. Dutch vierkant "rectangle")? NWBlock *kant-ja:- >
> > NWGerm. *xanso:-?
>
> I should mention that the quote from Tacutus' Germania comes from
> the following context: 'Definitur et numerus; centeni ex singulis
> pagis sunt, idque ipsum inter suos vocantur, et quod primo numerus
> fuit, iam nomen et honor est. Acies per cuneos componitur.' tr.
> "Their number is fixed; a hundred from each canton; and from this
> they take their name among their countrymen, so that what was
> originally a mere number has now become a title of distinction.
> Their line of battle is drawn up in a wedge-like formation."
>
> According to Ernout-Meillet, the Roman centuria seemed to have been
> at first a cavalry division.

Full quote:
'centuria f.(cf. decuria):
Varr., L.L.5,88, centuria, qui sub uno centurione sunt, quorum centenarius iustus numerus.

Désigne d'abord un groupe de cent cavaliers d'après
T.L.1,13,8, eodem tempore [a Romulo] et centuriae tres equitum conscriptae sunt, Ramnenses ab Romulo, ab T. Tatio Titienses appellati, Lucerum nominis et originis causa incerta est;
puis une division de citoyens qu'on attribue à Servius Tullius, cf.
T.L.4,4,2, census in ciuitate et discriptio centuriarum classiumque non erat, a Ser. Tullio facta est.

Cette division est peut-être d'origine étrusque d'après
Festus 358,21, rituales nominantur Etruscorum libri in quibus perscriptum est... quomodo tribus, curiae, centuriae distribuantur.
Cf. centuria praerogātīua, etc.

La centurie comprend théoriquement cent hommes, et peut-être ce chiffre était-il fixe à l'origine; mais il a varié tant à l'armée qu'à la ville, et centuria n'a plus eu avec centum qu'un rapport étymologique, e.g.
Caes. B.C. 3,91,3, eum electi milites circiter CXX uoluntarii eiusdem centuriae prosecuti sunt.

La centurie qui désignait d'abord, semble-t-il, une division de cavalerie a désigné ensuite une division de fantassins [infantry], tandis que turma était réservé à la cavalerie (Végèce, Mil.2,14; v. Thés. III 831, 48); cf. l'évolution de sens de classis.

Un autre sens de centuria est: surface de 2300 arpents. Explication peu vraisemblable dans
Varr. L.L.5,35, centuria primum a centum iugeribus dicta est, post duplicata retinuit nomen;
la centurie valant 200 arpents au minimum. Étymologie plus plausible dans
Sic. Flacc., Grom., p. 153,26, centuriis... uocabulum datum ex eo; cum antiqui Romanorum agrum ex hoste captum uictori populo per bina iugera partiti sunt, centenis hominibus ducentena iugera dederunt, et ex hoc facto centuria iuste appellata est; cf.
P.F.47,1, centuriatus ager in ducena iugera definitus, quia Romulus centenis ciuibus ducena iugera tribuit.
Du reste la surface de la centurie est variable, cf. Sic. Flacc, Grom. 159,9.

Dérivés:
centuriō; doublet populaire ancien (fait sur patrōnus?),
centuriōnus, d'après P.F.43,10 qui cite aussi cūriōnus et decuriōnus, epolōnus (irl. cétur);
centuriālis;
centuriātus (d'où centuriō, -ās);
centuriōnātus, -ūs (et centuriātus);
centuriōnicus;
succenturiō,-ās.

La formation de centuria et de decuria (v. ce mot) est peu claire. Une forme ancienne est indiquée par
v. sl. sÅ­toricejo, "cent fois",
lit. šimteriόpas "centuple",
v. isl. hundari,
v.h.a. huntari "centaine".

Le thème cento- sert de premier terme à des composés, dont beaucoup ont été fabriqués sur des modèles grecs:
centarchus M.L.1810;
centi-ceps (Hor. = ´εκατονκάρανος, -κέφαλος);
centimanus (= `εκατόγχειρ, Hor.Ov.);
centinōdia (Marcell.) M.L.1811a;
centipes M.L.1813 centipeda, -pedium;
centipelliō M.L.1812;
centuplex,
centuplicō, -ās, et
centuplus;
cf. aussi les juxtaposés
centu(m) pondium, centum uirī d'où centumuir.
Pour ce thème, cf.
skr. çata-,
v.sl. sÅ­to,
got. hunda-,
tandis que le grec a généralisé ´εκατον- au premier terme des composés.'

From which we learn the interconnection between the organization of land and the organization of the army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugerum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_units_of_measurement

And on the use of the plough when taking new land (from other people):
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60436
and surroundings


It still doesn't sound all IE to me.



Torsten