Re: German loans in Polish

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> > The important thing here was the *oldest*, pre-Ostsiedlung layer
> > of German loanwords in Polish.
> >  
> > ****GK:Just out of curiosity:
> > (1) Is there any information about a similar *oldest* in the
> > Sorbian languages, or in Kashubian (unless the latter is
> > considered a Polish dialect)?
>
> Not in Kästner's article.
>
> > (2) Is there any study of local dialects in the old Polabian areas
> > subsequently Germanized? *****
> >
>
> There probably is, Kästner doesn't mention it, his easy dismissal
> worries me too.
>
> I'll get back with a list of the words. My scanner broke, so I'll
> have to get a new one or copy at the libray, so things will be a bit
> slow from here.
>

One of those oldest loans listed by Kästner is the Christian term msza "mess", which is Pan-Slavic.

Vasmer:
mмша 'katholische Messe',
West. Südl., auch Kurakin, s. Smirnov 201
ukr. wruss. mša,
čech-aksl. mьša (Kiewer Blätter, Wenzel-Leg.),
skr. westl. m`àša,
čech. mše,
slk. omša,
poln. msza,
osorb. nsorb mša. ||

Entlehnt über ahd. missa, mÑ`ssa oder direkt aus lat. missa 'Messe',
"borrowed via OHG missa, mëssa or directly from Latin missa "mass"
s. Mi EW. 209, Boháč LF. 36, 432, Rudolf Zeitschr. 18, 267ff., Holub-Kopečný 234.

The thing that puzzles me is: how would Slavs get the idea to end-stress a word borrowed from a language with generalized initial stress? Was it borrowed through Venetic?

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/60866
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67708

or from a Germanic so early that it still had free accent?

or from Dacian/Thracian?


Torsten