Re: The other "Venedi" of the Tabula Peutingeriana

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

>
> W dniu 2011-07-01 19:59, george knysh pisze:
>
> > ****GK: Did any of the attested IE languages keep that meaning, as
> > far as you can tell? Might be interesting to know.
>
> There are some parallel examples of *-eto- adjectives corresponding
> to *-e/os- nouns.
>
> > Doesn't sound too
> > applicable to this lot:
> >
> > ""Venedi multum ex moribus [Sarmatorum ]traxerunt; nam quidquid
> > inter Peucinos Fennosque silvarum ac montium erigitur latrociniis
> > pererrant."
> > Tacitus, Germania, 46)
> >
> > Unless we think of Soviet style self-evaluations (:=))) *****
>
> Think of "the goodfellas", "la cosa nostra" and "a friend of ours"
> ;)

Dan. ven, Sw. vän "friend".


My proposal:

UEW
'weпe-še 'Boot, Kahn' FW
Finn. vene (Gen. veneen),
(dial.) veneh, venhe 'Boot, Kahn, Barke, Nachen';
est. vene (Gen. vene) 'Kahn, Boot' |

lapp.
N fânâs ( ~ vânâs) -dn-,
L vanās 'Boot, Schiff',
K (1825) T vans (Gen. vannizi),
Kld. vÓ©ns, -nnas,
Not. vÓ©nas, vÓ©nnas 'Boot' |

mord. E venč, väńč, M veńeš (dem.) veńeškä 'Kahn'.

Falls finn. vene usw. Ableitungen von einem Verb *vene- 'sich dehnen' sind (s. unter *wene- 'sich ausstrecken, sich dehnen' FW) (Serebrennikov: Ėtimologija 1966:302;
E. Itkonen: UAJb. 41:102),
so muß die Ableitung *wene-še ursprünglich eine Art Boot oder Floß bedeutet haben, das vom Ufer her gezogen wurde.

Das Ableitungssuffix *Å¡e ist in FW Zeit an den Stamm getreten.

Castrén: Suomi 1845:178;
Lindström: Suomi 1852:104;
Ahlqvist, MMdGr. 181, Kulturw. 165;
MUSz. 195;
Setälä: JSFOu. 14/3:43, 17/4:17;
Genetz: Suomi 1897/3/13:35;
ÁKE 282;
Collinder: Vir. 1928:245;
Steinitz, FgrVok. 31;
E. Itkonen: FUF 29:318, LpChr. 104, UAJb. 41:102;
Collinder, CompGr. 179;
Serebrennikov: Ėtimologija 1966:302;
Hallap: SFU 5:97.'

Boat people. Specifically towboat people. Since the root only occurs in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Volgaic_languages (FW)
which grouping supposedly doesn't exist anymore, it might be a substrate loan in those FU languages.


Torsten