>
> > It seems pretty clear to me (but discussion welcome) that for the
> > Germanics the term Vened et sim. played a role similar to that of
> > "Volcae". There were historical times when it applied to Slavs
> > (and not to seafaring ones either).
>
> Sorry, wrong.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdemar_I_of_Denmark
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarmers_Tower
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_V_of_Denmark#Reign
> ****GK: Sorry. I meant "not exclusively to seafaring ones".*****
Not your fault. The Anglo-Saxon community tends to get the German version of events, it at all, And to them the land-based Ostsiedlung was the main story, the Danish pacification of the coast a sideshow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Danska_v%C3%A4ldet_under_valdemar_sejr.jpg
> > On the other hand, it seems very arguable that at some time
> > "Vened" stood for (at least) primarily "coastal communities".
>
> Only indirectly in the sense that the Veneti were a coastal people,
> so that communities bearing their name tend to be close to water.
>
> > Ptolemy is a good source for such usage. Then we have to figure
> > out how this term came to be applied as an ethnonym to both a
> > Celtic and an Italic group (both coastal).
>
> ?? 'Wendisch' etc never refers to anything specically Celtic AFAIK.
> ****GK: I'm talking about the Armorican Veneti of course, defeated
> by Caesar. ****
Oh those.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veneti_(Gaul)
I don't think they were Celts any more than the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans
were French, ie. if they spoke Celtic at all, then having switched from Venetic.
I made up a story about them
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66403
Extra facts for that:
Hoby was accessed from the Rødby Fjord
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:R%C3%B8dby_fjord.png
(now reclaimed land), through the Kramnitse Gab, note the slavic(?) name.
Also, DBG 3, 16
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/caesar/gallic_e3.html
'They [the Veneti] accordingly surrendered themselves and all their possessions to Caesar, on whom Caesar thought that punishment should be inflicted the more severely, in order that for the future the rights of embassadors might be more carefully respected by barbarians; having, therefore, put to death all their senate, he sold the rest for slaves.'
Compare to DBG 1, 53, the aftermath of the battle against Ariovistus
http://www.forumromanum.org/literature/caesar/gallic_e1.html
'C. Valerius Procillus, as he was being dragged by his guards in the fight, bound with a triple chain, fell into the hands of Caesar himself, as he was pursuing the enemy with his cavalry. This circumstance indeed afforded Caesar no less pleasure than the victory itself; because he saw a man of the first rank in the province of Gaul, his intimate acquaintance and friend, rescued from the hand of the enemy, and restored to him, and that fortune had not diminished aught of the joy and exultation [of that day] by his destruction. He [Procillus] said that, in his own presence, the lots had been thrice consulted respecting him, whether he should immediately be put to death by fire, or be reserved for another time: that by the favor of the lots he was uninjured. M. Mettius, also, was found and brought back to him [Caesar].'
We should expect Caesar to have written something similar, if Titus Silius had been similarly rescued from the treacherous enemy, but he didn't (in the execution of the entire Venetic senate one senses, beside retribution for breach of diplomatic immunity, also the old hatred of land-based cultures against sea-based ones). We might therefore suspect that T. Silius died in captivity, in whichever fashion.
Also
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendsyssel
'Vendel (Old Danish Wændil) was also the ancient name of the Limfjord itself.'
The
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limfjord
would be on the route between the Armorican and the Baltic Veneti.
According to
http://www.thistedmuseum.dk/Historisk%20%C3%85rbog/%C3%85rgang%201963/Rolighed,%20Jens%20%20%20Fra%20Vust%20sogn%20i%20svundne%20tider.pdf
there was a portage at
Vust, 1231 Vrst (as an island), 1465 Wost, locally [u?st]
http://maps.google.dk/maps?q=vust&hl=da&sll=55.869147,11.228027&sspn=6.797677,14.128418&z=14
with the NWBck/Venetic ending -st-
Torsten